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Thread: Acceptable spindle play, Logan 825 10 lathe

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockingJ View Post
    Let’s talk about the bearing preload that was mentioned. My lathe has no belville washers, I really see no was to adjust the preload. There is around .015 or so of end play when I use a pry air to move the spindle forward and back but it does take a decent amount of force to get it to move at all.

    One other thing that I was thinking about was the rear bearing ( smaller of the two bearings) was loose and rotating in the bore of the headstock. I degreased the bore and the outer shell of the bearing and applied red locktite and that seemed to tighten up the bearing. Maybe I will need to remove the headstock and bore it on my mill for a sleeve to get the bore back to size, unless someone here has a better option.
    The rear bearing should be able to slide in the bore for thermal expansion, but should not rotate in it. The front (nose) bearing should be secured in the bore.

    If you have the manual, it will show the parts and arrangement.

    Earlier machines, like my model 200, have a double row nose bearing which is supposed to be a zero clearance bearing, internally preloaded, with a nut behind it. It is held by a split ring to keep it from sliding, but the rear bearing can slide. There are no Belleville springs in the standard setup for those.

    Later machines have a set of belleville springs for preload. I thought the 825 had that arrangement. If you look at the Vintage machinery site, they have a manual for a different machine that shows on page 20 a setup similar to what I think the 825 has.

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/19980.pdf

    You can get a manual from Logan for a few bucks, if you do not have one. Give them the serial number and the manual will be the one applying to your machine.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 02-08-2019 at 12:39 PM. Reason: added link
    1601

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    Hashim Khan

  2. #22
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    Sounds like if you fix the bearing preload, all will be good, assuming it has tapered bearings

  3. #23
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    First off, I do not have tapered bearings, both bearings are ball bearings, the larger bearing has the proper snap ring on the outer shell.

    I do have the operators and parts manuals from Logan. The parts breakdown shows no belville washers.

    I do have a chatter issue that usually an be worked around using feeds and speeds.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by old mart View Post
    I have looked at the illustration of Logan spindle bearings on the lathes website: http://www.lathes.co.uk/logan/
    I wonder, seeing the high cost of new bearings whether it would be possible to have the slop removed by either surface grinding, or cylindrical grinding at a machine shop. If it is possible to do, I would start with 0.002" to see what difference that made. You have very little to loose, as a replacement lathe would likely cost less than new bearings.
    Or shim it with beer cans or even real shim stock.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Or shim it with beer cans or even real shim stock.
    While not quite relevant, I once worked for a firm with an elderly milling machine, eventually the main bearing, If I remember correctly a tapered roller job expired,
    The firm was almost broke so I grovelled round in the stores and found parts which fitted both on the id and od, it certainly was not an abec, probably not even from the same set, but by adding some shims and tightening the preload ring every morning for a week the mill was again at work.
    Maybe there is a work around with cheaper, easier obtainable parts. Hope this will help or at least be encouraging. Regards David Powell.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockingJ View Post
    First off, I do not have tapered bearings, both bearings are ball bearings, the larger bearing has the proper snap ring on the outer shell.

    I do have the operators and parts manuals from Logan. The parts breakdown shows no belville washers.

    I do have a chatter issue that usually an be worked around using feeds and speeds.
    Maybe you have the OLD type, with a double row internally preloaded ball bearing.

    Then...

    check to make certain the bearing canot move around i the bore it is in.....

    Check to be certain the top of the bearing housing is not moving, so it is not cracked, etc.

    If you are sure the bearing is the problem, it may have been replaced and you may just have a loose clearance. that is what I have.

    I am going out for a whle, but I will post a pic of the part layout in the model 200, and you can see i it looks like yours. OR, take a pic of the drawing in your manual and if you can post, do that, or if not, send to me and I will post it for you when I get back.

    We'll get it straightened out or at least identify the problem.

    I had to add a bearing to preload mine, I was so P.O'd aboiut getting the wrong bearing from Logan that I refused to buy a better one from them at the time. (Turns out they just did not know at the time, mine is from Feb 1942) I can also detail that, if it might help.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 02-09-2019 at 09:17 PM.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  7. #27
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    did you tighten the nut on the spindle yet?

  8. #28
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    OK, is this the diagram you have?

    (I am posting it for identification, and will take it down after)

    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Tiers View Post
    OK, is this the diagram you have?

    (I am posting it for identification, and will take it down after)

    That is very similar not not quite the same, my lathe is the under drive version with double v-belts driving the main spindle.

    I do have a gasket between the headstock casting and the outboard bearing retainer on the chuck end of the spindle. In the parts breakdown there is no gasket shown, I did try removing it at one point but then the spindle was hard to turn for what ever reason. I’m guessing the thickness of the gasket is.015 - .020 this is something I’ll have to investigate further.

    Yes I have tightened the nut on the spindle, but I’ll recheck that just to be sure.

  10. #30
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    So, then it seems that you DO have the double row nose bearing, #651 in the view just to left of spindle.

    The gasket is not, as far as I know, original, although there is "LA-247" shown between the nose cover and presumably the bearing, which is noted as a "spring washer". On earlier units, the cover just nips the bearing against the split ring to hold it from moving. it's a tight adjustment, and the spring washer would help that.

    The LA247" washer is not a preload, it appears to be just a way of holding the bearing back so the split ring is "loaded" and does not let the bearing move in and out.

    The bearing could be a replacement, likely not the zero clearance type that was the original. I don't know about 4 thou, but the one I was sold matches a C3 clearance, and there may be looser grades. I'm surprised, if that is the case, that you have found the machine useful at all, as I had crazy chatter with the C3 with most operations, certainly cutoff went crazy and the machine almost jumped off the bench.

    If all else fails to identify a problem, pull it again and see if the outer race actually feels loose. I'd expect so with 4 thou movement.

    We could use some pictures......
    Last edited by J Tiers; 02-11-2019 at 02:57 PM. Reason: fixed ref number
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

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