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Thread: hazards of using epoxy

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    I have had the faint smell of cat piss in my shop for a couple of months. Can’t find it I even bought a ultraviolet black flashlight to look for it. Didn’t find it. But made the mistake of showing the light to my wife and she used it in the bathroom and freaked out how dirty the toilet was.
    Cat piss smell is all but gone now.
    Back to the epoxy. It doesn’t bother me too much, and I am VERY, VERY allergect to a lot of other things.
    IF really want to be freaked out, real UV (365nm) led light to a hotel room. LOL...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willy View Post
    Yeah great smell that EP gear oil ain't it?
    The smell is most likely the phosphorous and sulfur extreme pressure additives I would believe, perhaps with a bit of chlorine just to embellish the fragrance.

    Years ago I had a 1 ton 4X4 with a wooden flat deck. Changed the gearbox/transfer case oils and both differentials one day and ended up with enough old gear oil to treat my dried up old wood deck on the truck with the used gear oil.
    It was a warm summer evening and the smell was a little strong so I left the truck out back away from the house so that I could leave the windows to the house open. Came out to get the truck in the morning, took one look at the deck and couldn't believe the amount of bugs stuck to it.
    Every flying insect within 2 miles must have been drawn to it and stuck to the oil, it looked like a soft fuzzy blanket! Ever since then whenever I end up wearing that stuff I make a point of cleaning up real well before the bugs start hoovering around.
    Remember Pigpen from the old Charlie Brown cartoons, I think he was an EP 90 guy.
    Yeah Pigpen must have been using that stuff on the axles of his radio flyer and got some on his "blankie" lol


    I have noticed that the synthetic GL-5 is nowhere near as stinky - still stinks don't get me wrong but im thinking that the base stock is so good they don't need to add as much of the extreme pressure concentrates --- I got the old school GL-5 on my sleeve, to me it's almost got a hint of good old fashioned BO to it...

    going to try the vinegar trick thanks all...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    Yeah Pigpen must have been using that stuff on the axles of his radio flyer and got some on his "blankie" lol


    I have noticed that the synthetic GL-5 is nowhere near as stinky - still stinks don't get me wrong but im thinking that the base stock is so good they don't need to add as much of the extreme pressure concentrates --- I got the old school GL-5 on my sleeve, to me it's almost got a hint of good old fashioned BO to it...

    going to try the vinegar trick thanks all...
    Next time try GM/Saab manual transaxle oil 1940182/93165290.
    Smells like toffee candy.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Next time try GM/Saab manual transaxle oil 1940182/93165290.
    Smells like toffee candy.
    Nice to know, however I think your hypoid differential will smell like toast.
    Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
    Bad Decisions Make Good Stories

  5. #25
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    Why can't they make it smell like a snickers bar - I think that would be a nice touch...

  6. #26
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    A.K. I quoted your post in relation to the vinegar idea by accident. The vinegar trick works on the cat pee stink. But if you try it anyway and it works on the hypoid oil please let us/me know. And sorry for the misquote.

  7. #27
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    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    Them 2k epoxys nowadays are based on halohydrin resins (epichlorhydrin esters e.g.). These already reek quite horribly on their own....and as if that was not enough, the hardener component contains several amine compounds that give off this fishy cat pee like odour. All in all a rather terrible concoction. I use Locktite 2k epoxies for glueing tensile strength anchors to test bodies and the stuff just reeks to high heavens. And it lingers on clothes and skin for the whole day.

    But yeah...amines can be neutralised by acid treatment, they are susceptible to binding H+ from acidic media and usually become quite docile regarding the smelling part after being "protonated". So the white vinegar treatment makes sense from a chemists point of view.
    At last, a real chemist. Markx, maybe you solve one of the great problems of the age, what can be done about the vomit stink and white powdery coating that forms on screw and nut driver handles made with CAB. Cellulose acerate butyrate was very popular for a while. Xcelite made tons of them. They can be cleaned easily enough but if they are not in a bone dry environment it just comes back. I contemplated dipping them in a moisture curing urethane like some guys do with fishing lures but did not want to risk messing them up. I have quite a few and any advice would be greatly appreciated. I figure we exhausted cat pee so now maybe we can work on the vomit/BO smell. LOL!! Thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by darryl View Post
    How do the various 'open' glues, epoxies, paints, solvents etc compare as far as 'toxicity'?
    Great post. I think all chemicals are bad for you at certain levels and improper handling.

    Here is my example I was filling a very small hole with epoxy out of a blunt syringe. It was too thick at room temp (78f)so I warmed it in the microwave. Yup, then for some reason took a whiff of the cup I had it in. Big mistake. Burned my nostrils worse than any other chemicals I have "smelled". Dont do it.

    Nuther bad chemical is two part auto epoxy primer and paint that has isocyanate (ISO). Some folks are very sensitive to it and will send them to the hospital. Some folks dont have any effect. I always take full precautions when messing with that stuff. JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6PTsocket View Post
    At last, a real chemist. Markx, maybe you solve one of the great problems of the age, what can be done about the vomit stink and white powdery coating that forms on screw and nut driver handles made with CAB. Cellulose acerate butyrate was very popular for a while. Xcelite made tons of them. They can be cleaned easily enough but if they are not in a bone dry environment it just comes back. I contemplated dipping them in a moisture curing urethane like some guys do with fishing lures but did not want to risk messing them up. I have quite a few and any advice would be greatly appreciated. I figure we exhausted cat pee so now maybe we can work on the vomit/BO smell. LOL!! Thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    The CAB degradation is essentially the hydrolysis of esters. An ester being the product of the reaction of an alcohol with an acid and water usually being the other sideproduct. The role of the alcohol is not just reserved for substances which we classically perceive as such (ethanol, methanol, prapanol, etc.), but also solid polyalcohols like erythritol, xylitol, sorbitol, mannitol and also sugars and starches....like cellulose, which is a heavy polysaccharide (a sugar) in a chemical sense. Usually ester synthesis is performed under anhydrous conditions where water will be strongly bound and removed from the reaction environment by a substance that likes to keep it closer than the ester forming compounds (e.g. concentrated sulfuric acid, acetic anhydride, etc). This anhydrous environment shifts the chemical balance towards the formation of the ester compound. Now the problem with esters is that they are not terribly stable and their formation is reversible: as in going backwards from ester to alcohol and acid being formed again. This reversed reaction needs water to proceed, hence the term "hydrolysis". As water is abundant in our everyday environment, the hydrolysis shall proceed. What is even worse is the fact that ester hydrolysis is sped up by acids and bases both alike. And during hydrolysis at least one acid (the one that formed the ester initially) is resurrected by the breakup of the ester itself. So the process is selfaccelerating. Trying to neutralise the acid with a base shall usually introduce an overdose of a base into the system, which also accelerates the ester breakup process and to an even greater extent than acid ever could.
    In case of cellulose acetate butyrate we have a "combined" ester : cellulose serving as the alcohol, with butyric and acetic acid as the respective counterpart. As the compound breaks up under the influence of water, the respective acids are formed: butyric and acetic acid. Butyric acid has the characteristic vomit smell and cellulose shall provide the white powdery layer that can be seen.
    To slow down the process one needs to eliminate the culprits that are responsible: the acids, the bases and the water. For practical purposes.....cleaning up the surface as good as one can, dry it to maximum possible extent and then coat with a more stable polymer to keep water out is about the best that can be done....
    I would suggest to try it out on a specimen that is already far gone and shall not be mourned in case the process does not work out as intended. There may be many beartraps awaiting....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by markx View Post
    The CAB degradation is essentially the hydrolysis of esters. An ester being the product of the reaction of an alcohol with an acid and water usually being the other sideproduct. The role of the alcohol is not just reserved for substances which we classically perceive as such (ethanol, methanol, prapanol, etc.), but also solid polyalcohols like erythritol, xylitol, sorbitol, mannitol and also sugars and starches....like cellulose, which is a heavy polysaccharide (a sugar) in a chemical sense. Usually ester synthesis is performed under anhydrous conditions where water will be strongly bound and removed from the reaction environment by a substance that likes to keep it closer than the ester forming compounds (e.g. concentrated sulfuric acid, acetic anhydride, etc). This anhydrous environment shifts the chemical balance towards the formation of the ester compound. Now the problem with esters is that they are not terribly stable and their formation is reversible: as in going backwards from ester to alcohol and acid being formed again. This reversed reaction needs water to proceed, hence the term "hydrolysis". As water is abundant in our everyday environment, the hydrolysis shall proceed. What is even worse is the fact that ester hydrolysis is sped up by acids and bases both alike. And during hydrolysis at least one acid (the one that formed the ester initially) is resurrected by the breakup of the ester itself. So the process is selfaccelerating. Trying to neutralise the acid with a base shall usually introduce an overdose of a base into the system, which also accelerates the ester breakup process and to an even greater extent than acid ever could.
    In case of cellulose acetate butyrate we have a "combined" ester : cellulose serving as the alcohol, with butyric and acetic acid as the respective counterpart. As the compound breaks up under the influence of water, the respective acids are formed: butyric and acetic acid. Butyric acid has the characteristic vomit smell and cellulose shall provide the white powdery layer that can be seen.
    To slow down the process one needs to eliminate the culprits that are responsible: the acids, the bases and the water. For practical purposes.....cleaning up the surface as good as one can, dry it to maximum possible extent and then coat with a more stable polymer to keep water out is about the best that can be done....
    I would suggest to try it out on a specimen that is already far gone and shall not be mourned in case the process does not work out as intended. There may be many beartraps awaiting....
    Wow, my head is still spinning from that one. Surprisingly, none of them is far gone.When covered with the white decomposition product, it scrubs right off looking as good as new. I am surprised they don't show signs of erosion. If I am going to take a shot, what would be your choice for an encapsulator? It has to be tough, moderately chemical resistant to what is around a home shop and not dissolve the CAB. Any suggestions greatly appreciated and you are absolved for a bad guess. This subject comes up on several forums. People get rid of the tools or live with it but nobody suggests a solution. How are you on my idea for a moisture cure urethane or even a catalysed one? I would prefer not to spray for the same reasons mentioned in the epoxy discussion. I spoke with a guy at 3M safety and he said isocyanates in brush or dip form are not nearly as bad as in aerosol form and I could wear gloves and for extra protection ,a fresh P95 mask. Thanks again.

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