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Thread: Why it might become harder to spot quality tools.

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Why it might become harder to spot quality tools.

    Interesting video. On who makes what tools. Does conglomerate manufacturing affect quality.

    hope this link works:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGRVDRZbPkQ
    Last edited by rustdreamer; 03-15-2019 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #2
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    Why it MIGHT become harder? Are you kidding or just visiting our planet?

    I'd change the title to "Is it still possible to spot a quality tool?"
    Welcome to the Global Economy reality!
    Last edited by MichaelP; 03-15-2019 at 08:07 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    How it MIGHT become harder? Are you kidding or just visiting our planet?

    I'd change the title to "Is it still possible to spot a quality tool?"
    Welcome to the Global Economy reality!
    Is it still possible to find honest review on youtube?

    "pro tools advertisements"

  4. #4
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    Something like this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Is it still possible to find honest review on youtube?

    "pro tools advertisements"
    NO,,, Most of the Youtube videos that I have watched the person making the video wasn't sure which end the tool they was using had the handle on it. It take more than owning a IPhone to make a decent tool video.
    _____________________________________________
    Mel Larsen
    I would rather have tools that I never use, than not have a tool I need.

  6. #6

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    As soon as one of these conglomerates picks up a brand, you can watch the quality fall, although some are worse than others. The purchasers satisfaction of the end product is not even in the equation with these conglomerates. Cut staff, cut costs, play musical countries to send manufacturing for the absolute cheapest slave labor possible. The only priority is to make money for the shareholders. The point of any monopoly is to make an inferior product at a superior price. With modern manufacturing techniques and materials, things should be better, more durable, and last longer than ever. But they are not, and they don't.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by junkaddict View Post
    ... With modern manufacturing techniques and materials, things should be better, more durable, and last longer than ever. But they are not, and they don't.
    2 points:

    1) Stuff is cheap now. A typical HSM type can own equipment that a contractor in the '80s would drool over, the stuff a professional could leverage to make a good living. Back then, having the tools made the difference between getting the job or not, and those tools were expensive. Any fool can have them now, no big deal.

    2) For every example of some thing that grenades 2 days after the warranty expires, there's another example of some cheap piece of what should be junk that just keeps going and going. I mean, I paid $10 for a single-cup coffee maker, permanent filter, that came with an insulated steel cup, and it's easily made over 10,000 cups of coffee... been going for over a decade. No moving parts, you say? I've got a $69 breadmaker that's been going for what must be over 15 years now. No idea how many loaves of bread it's pounded and baked it's way through. $69. I don't want to think of all the electronics stuff I've thrown out (or stored because I can't convince myself to throw out) that works perfectly well but they're entirely useless these days.

    The problem is not that it's all garbage now but that, as the OP points out, it's really hard to know what's going to last and what won't. That, coupled with the "replace, don't fix" approach leaves people getting occasionally burned by some premium thing that prematurely dies. Price seem decoupled from quality and manufacturing is so distributed that even buying something that reviews well doesn't mean that you'll get the same thing the reviewer had... even if they look identical.

    But, I wouldn't trade the risk of being occasionally burned for the good old days when everything was so freaking expensive that making do with no tools at all was normal.

    That direct line between the sales floor and the factory, knowledgeable sales staff, replacement parts, a warranty that doesn't just replace what turned out to be junk with more junk... that simply costs way too much money. It actually is just cheaper to go buy another one, a lot cheaper.

    David...

  8. #8
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    I am not sure, I just saw fixerdave talk about "cheap". I am assuming he means inexpensive.

    We FAT modernized consumers have become complacent.

    I dont think there is a quick fix either.

    My fix? Dont pay too much attention to the other person, focus on yer own chit that is in your face. Right? I dont know. JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

  9. #9

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    A few more dollars here and there, and it could last a lot longer. Lean production does not mean it has to be a piece of crap. I think of my moms refrigerator, washer, and dryer. She bought them when I was a kid, and she still had them 30+ years later, still working, with a few repair here and there. The refrigerator was never touched, and was still working when she gave it away to get a new one 33 years later. That fridge was $700 in 1975, an absolute top of the line model, about $3300 today. In the last 18 years I've gone through 3 refrigerators. If I go through 2 more at the end of 33 years, I'll be about 10 grand into refrigerators over the same time period. The companies making them have cheaper costs, cheap foreign labor, and it is really no cheaper that a fridge that lasted 33 years when adjusted for inflation, especially considering a top of the line model. You actually end up paying more in the long run. The genius here is that companies have actually convinced the public they are the ones benefiting from cheap foreign goods. The only one benefiting is the manufacturer, and stake holders. Again, the end user is not even considered, except in the area of putting just enough into the machine to get it past the warranty period.

  10. #10
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    That old refrigerator cost a lot more overall if one includes the electricity required to make it functional. There are other factors as well.
    Also, appliances used to be overbuilt, and this is generally ok, but far from always requisite for a quality or reliable product, and it drives up cost unnecessarily. My impression of the bulk of the problem with modern appliances (and many other items too), is that they have tons of electronics and bells and whistles that cost more, greatly reduce the reliability and make them less practical to repair. Not to mention that, since hardly anyone bothers anymore, repairability is a far less important factor to most folks. The added BS is strictly in response to what the public seems to want. I expressly chose a simple washer/dryer and refrigerator, and all have been quite reliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by junkaddict View Post
    The genius here is that companies have actually convinced the public they are the ones benefiting from cheap foreign goods. The only one benefiting is the manufacturer, and stake holders. Again, the end user is not even considered, except in the area of putting just enough into the machine to get it past the warranty period.
    People say things like this a lot, and I often find myself puzzled by it.
    What the customer wants, or thinks they want, is what drives products/sales. Deliver, or you go out of business quickly. We have cheaper Chinese lathes (or whatevers) because people want such a machine at that price point. It's not like you even have the choice of buying domestic. The alternative for many people is simply, NO lathe. Quality is price dependent, and one is free to buy as high a quality item as they can afford/justify. Hell, never in history have we HAD so many choices. I don't know what the warranty was on my current lathe, but it has been running since 2000 without any problems - not even a motor capacitor, and it was used industrially for quite awhile. It made me a lot of money. Money which I wouldn't have ever been able to make had such a machine not been available.

    We (the general populous) DO benefit greatly, at least short term (long term is another argument entirely). As far as I can tell, many products are really about as good as or better then they ever were, and at a lower cost when adjusted for inflation. As an example, My first new car stereo cost something like $350 in the 80's. I can now go to 10 places in town and walk out with a FAR superior product with infinitely more features for roughly $100. Perhaps a bit less reliable, but that is mostly due to the far greater complexity/features This pricing is with NO factoring of inflation. The first set of BFG Comp T/A tires I put on my Camaro cost nearly $300 a pop IIRC. The last set I put on cost a bit over $100, are stickier, and last 3x as long - SCORE! Heck, I noticed the other day (ran a long term report in Quicken) that I am paying LESS for my phone, electricity and gasoline than I was about 20 years ago, and this seems to be true for most things.

    Cars are more expensive, but they are in no way comparable to cars of the 1980's as they are way more reliable and far safer, faster, get better mileage, not to mention the myriad of standard features. Even with all of that, if you get a car without tons of (reliability reducing) bling, they just aren't all that expensive.

    So... why do many people still have little money left over at the end of the month? It is the choices they make, of course. We (well, most of us Americans anyway) have a lifestyle that costs. We have to have a cool vehicle that is optioned out, every member of the family has a cell phone with unlimited minutes and data, multiple powerful computers, big TV's, DVR's, cable AND Netflix, super-fast internet, we eat out a lot, and so on. We ALL just have to have the latest and greatest EVERYthing it sometimes seems. Most of it, just so we can piss away our free time instead of doing something constructive and useful, or to impress people we don't particularly like. We have an unprecedented level of comfort and more choices than at any time in history of the world, but people in general do not appear to feel 'blessed', perhaps due to the added complexities of modern life (many of which are self-imposed). This comfortable lifestyle with so many things (things our parents didn't even DREAM of) seems to top out at our income, regardless of what that figure is, plus the debt level we are willing to incur. Funny how that works out...

    That being said, IMO, we sold off the infrastructure and ability to effectively fight a war (and other things, like financial dependencies), so we could have all the inexpensive crap we want (NOT that we really need). But, we DID get something - many things that are very tangible and useful. Worth it? I guess if we live awhile, maybe not that much longer, we will indeed find out the actual, all inclusive, price we end up paying. And, if you are 20 years old, I do indeed worry for your future.
    Wow, long post!

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