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Thread: Quick Change Tool Post

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    The screws that hold the tool bit in the holder are a frequent place where manufacturers will take shortcuts. When I made my QC post I had some SS cap screws on hand and I used them. You can see them in my photo in post #9. But they started to mushroom quickly. I removed them and replaced them with grade 8 cap screws and have had no further problems. I really should replace that photo.
    Paul, with all due respect, you have exhibited the the frustration I have with the total lack of understanding by the machinist world of fasteners and materials.......... and why, copycat engineering is sometimes never as good as original concept.
    The failures in screws that you have encountered is a perfect example and I will explain.
    American made Socket Head (Allen to some) Set Screws (SHSS) ( AND Cap Screws !-SHCS)) can only be produced here in the US by meeting ANSI standards (USA) which demand steel that is 176,000 pounds Tensile (T) Strength Minimum !
    When such screws are made elsewhere in the world---- there is NO STANDARD !
    --Please, no argument for Metric which I also love, but will cover--
    For Metric screws there are many standards, and the comparable standard to the above is DIN 12.9---but that does not mean that foriegn makers follow any DIN standard like 10.9 or any other lower Tensile Strength steel making fasteners. This means a screw company in Podunkia can make US threaded set screws out of crap , where Allen, HK, Camcarr, or Unbrako cannot under the ANSI Regs of 1962B or whatever. Your selection of SS was wrong as it is not the strongest screw and you should have Specified a screw(S) from the above 4 companies and if possible use UNBRAKO as their standard for Socket head screws is 180,000 T , higher than DIN standards.
    But back to the focus.

    So an ALoris holder will use ANSI Specified screws in their product. An imposter will use whats cheaper .
    I have to say my BS detector goes up when I read someone knocking an ALoris Tool Post and complaining about the screws or repeatability or other function. I know they do not have "An ALoris" they have a imposter post , but they try to impress other posters by using the name Aloris.
    They pat themselves on the back for having it and they got it cheaper....hooray for them...but it is NOT the same TOOL !
    Just like Multiflex has it's imposters , Aloris has it's imposters, and believe me (if you will) there is no replica that matches the original.

    Tip : Always watch for the word "type" and realize that it means "Not the Same, only looks like the same"

    Buying a new tire from a Tire Outlet does not mean you can use that tire to go 200 MPH in your dragster
    Buying a Tool Post from Flung Dung does not mean you will get performance you may expect.
    I said it before and I say it now. if you want to see real quality, take a REAL Aloris apart and look at it, then take your Flung Dung TP apart
    Like tires and Cap Screws , there is a big difference.
    Last word
    If you want repeatability in a tool post or any tool, read up on "the six degrees of freedom" and understand
    this law of Physics for tool or part holding .
    Off the soap Box
    Paul you are to be commended for building a fine tool post....just your screws are screwed up \Rich

    PS. Disclaimer . I do not have any interest in any of the above companies, only 50 + years of shop work and solving problems

    PS #2
    H K stands for Holo Krome
    Last edited by Rich Carlstedt; 07-07-2019 at 01:00 PM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    I'd like to replace the metric screws on my aftermarket tool carriers with same metric but with Fractional sockets so I don't have to use two different Allen T's!

    Seriously... I tried to retap a few for fractional threads (yep, mangle the metric by over-taping imperial!). Frigg... some were like butter, but an equal number were like glass. No consistency in hardening for sure, but at less than $10-15 each for CXA and DA size you get what you pay for.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    SE Texas
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    Rich,

    Thanks for the discussion on screws. It states what many of us know but the beginners can be trapped by. I totally agree that standards can be lacking or totally non existent in many other areas of the world. I have seen black finish, socket head cap screws that were soft as butter. Who made them? I don't know.

    Both the SS cap screws in my photo and the grade 8 ones that I now use came from McMaster. I have found that McMaster is a reliable supplier. They may not specify the brand names, but they do stock good quality merchandise. The SS screws were not bad; they just were not the proper screw for the application. I did not realize that until they started to mushroom and I quickly replaced then when I observed that. And I warn those who use my plans that they should nor use SS screws there. In fact, I specifically added that warning to the later versions of my article so there would be no confusion. Unfortunately, I can not change the original version that was published in the magazine. If I could, I would.

    I am going to make a new photo with the grade 8 screws.

    As for the six degrees of freedom, I worked as a TV engineer, but have a degree in physics. I am totally aware of them and was totally aware of them when I designed the tool post. Each and every one of them WAS considered at that time.
    Paul A.

    Make it fit.
    You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Toronto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer View Post
    Can someone answer this question for me.
    What is so great about the Swiss Multi-Fix
    toolposts over an Aloris??r
    Repeatability and indexing. If you were making 10 of something and want say parting, knife and facing tools at different angles, you get it all set once and away you go.
    .

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    Rich, .................................................. ..........

    As for the six degrees of freedom, I worked as a TV engineer, but have a degree in physics. I am totally aware of them and was totally aware of them when I designed the tool post. Each and every one of them WAS considered at that time.
    Bravo mate, Bravo !
    Rich

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer
    "Can someone answer this question for me.-What is so great about the Swiss Multi-Fix toolposts over an Aloris?? "

    r
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Repeatability and indexing. If you were making 10 of something and want say parting, knife and facing tools at different angles, you get it all set once and away you go.
    Its a great post, however my Aloris is square to the work and I use Tool Holders that have the inserts or HSS tool already set for special angles like chamfers or boring. The 9 degree orientation settings mean you could drop in the holder in the wrong slot and be off on the cut, so you must pay particular attention when changing tools.

    If your work requires lots of angular settings , then a Multiflex may be a better post for such work. The advantage of multi-angles settings is valid but over stressed IMHO and does not reflect normal lathe work in most cases.

    Rich

  7. #57
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    Mar 2005
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    Toronto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
    If your work requires lots of angular settings , then a Multiflex may be a better post for such work. The advantage of multi-angles settings is valid but over stressed IMHO and does not reflect normal lathe work in most cases.

    Rich
    I don't have one and don't do very much bulk stuff. I have a small turret lathe when the odd need arises for production runs, which are for me likely to be small parts. I've never minded loosening and turning the TP to put the tool at the angle I need it, but its definitely the an advantage the multifix has
    .

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Missouri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozer
    "Can someone answer this question for me.-What is so great about the Swiss Multi-Fix toolposts over an Aloris?? "

    r

    Its a great post, however my Aloris is square to the work and I use Tool Holders that have the inserts or HSS tool already set for special angles like chamfers or boring. The 9 degree orientation settings mean you could drop in the holder in the wrong slot and be off on the cut, so you must pay particular attention when changing tools.

    If your work requires lots of angular settings , then a Multiflex may be a better post for such work. The advantage of multi-angles settings is valid but over stressed IMHO and does not reflect normal lathe work in most cases.

    Rich
    I change angles so often that if I got ANY QCTP, the Multifix or similar "type" would be the one I would go for. Since that would be more than doubling the value of the lathe, I choose not to buy a multi-fix. But the principle is sound and very useful. The real limit is that there are "only" 40 positions, and I can see needing one in-between.
    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWKen View Post
    Well, I feel sorry as heck for all you CNC guys. I can usually hit my number spot-on. Having to worry about all those zeros and buttons must be a real pain.
    Make 2500 of the same part and report back on how it went for you (-:

  10. #60
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    I'm retired. I'm not makin' 2500 of nothin'. I might get 40 winks but that's it!

    All my shop time is play time. I even have a TV out there in case it gets boring.

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