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Thread: 10EE inspection

  1. #11
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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I been watching this 10EE thread(s) going for awhile. And I been wondering,,,,,,,
    What is it about that complicated drive that tops all the others,?
    If that DC drive was so good, why hasnt Clausing, LeBlonde, American, Pacemaker, South Bend, Logan, and the rest haven't adopted it? Why didn't they adopt that 60 years ago?
    Why is the DC motor drive a seemingly new thing on the machines as of lately?
    Why go to the trouble of a electric motor driving a electric generator, to drive another motor?
    OMG !!! the parasitic losses are tremendous !!!!
    You would be efficiency ahead if you simply had a gas generator driving the final DC drive and be done with it !!!
    Why is this thing so complicated and it seems no one else adopted the technology?
    Just an inquiring mind that asks to know.......
    What needs to be kept in mind that these lathes are 1940 vintage. Most of the more modern spindle drive methods did not exist at that time. In that era, vari-speed pulleys and belt drive was the most common way of obtaining variable speed, the monarch dc drive was state of the art at the time.

    I read a thread somewhere where a guy had a 10EE 40's vintage that the Navy had rebuilt in the 1990's by monarch. Monarch used a fincor DC drive in the rebuild. I have no idea if this is the approach monarch used for their later rebuilds as a matter of routine. I would think that if monarch used a fincor dc drive in rebuilds that its performance must be pretty darned good compared to the old drive. That thread claimed $125,000 as the cost for the Navy's rebuild by monarch.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Sunny So Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky_NY View Post
    That thread claimed $125,000 as the cost for the Navy's rebuild by monarch.
    Yeah but,,, Dont forget what the military pays for toilet seats too JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Buffalo NY USA
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    499

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I been watching this 10EE thread(s) going for awhile. And I been wondering,,,,,,,
    What is it about that complicated drive that tops all the others,?
    If that DC drive was so good, why hasnt Clausing, LeBlonde, American, Pacemaker, South Bend, Logan, and the rest haven't adopted it? Why didn't they adopt that 60 years ago?
    Why is the DC motor drive a seemingly new thing on the machines as of lately?
    Why go to the trouble of a electric motor driving a electric generator, to drive another motor?
    OMG !!! the parasitic losses are tremendous !!!!
    You would be efficiency ahead if you simply had a gas generator driving the final DC drive and be done with it !!!
    Why is this thing so complicated and it seems no one else adopted the technology?
    Just an inquiring mind that asks to know.......
    They didn't adopt it because it was so expensive, basically. It's a high-end machine even today. You can do stuff with the old monarchs and also the hardinge HLV that you just couldn't do with anything less than a HAAS TL-1 today, and by the time you buy one of those and tool it up, you're into six figures. His headstock bearings alone on his 10EE is worth a down payment on a new truck.
    Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 08-01-2019 at 08:41 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Took the control cover off


    Another photo of the mystery box


    And what must be the 3phase motor and generator. My Monarch manual came in the mail so I have some reading to do.
    You know, the cover was probably removed by another bidder doing an inspection, just a thought. Machine probably works as is.


    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  5. #15
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    Jul 2017
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    Buffalo NY USA
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    499

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    Quote Originally Posted by RB211 View Post
    Took the control cover off

    Another photo of the mystery box

    And what must be the 3phase motor and generator. My Monarch manual came in the mail so I have some reading to do.
    You know, the cover was probably removed by another bidder doing an inspection, just a thought. Machine probably works as is.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    That wiring looks really new for its age.... like it was totally replaced sometime in the last 20 yrs. Betcha it works just fine with some gentle cleaning and lube.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland, Europe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I been watching this 10EE thread(s) going for awhile. And I been wondering,,,,,,,
    What is it about that complicated drive that tops all the others,?
    If that DC drive was so good, why hasnt Clausing, LeBlonde, American, Pacemaker, South Bend, Logan, and the rest haven't adopted it? Why didn't they adopt that 60 years ago?
    Why is the DC motor drive a seemingly new thing on the machines as of lately?
    Why go to the trouble of a electric motor driving a electric generator, to drive another motor?
    OMG !!! the parasitic losses are tremendous !!!!
    You would be efficiency ahead if you simply had a gas generator driving the final DC drive and be done with it !!!
    Why is this thing so complicated and it seems no one else adopted the technology?
    Just an inquiring mind that asks to know.......
    Ease of adjustability and smoothness are probably main benefits of the 10ee drive system.

    Why others didnít use it? Too complicated/expensive especially for large lathes. And lesser lathes were fine with less rpm range. 10000 dollar drive on 1000 dollar south bend doesnt make sense.

    Electric motor driving another was normal or pretty much only way 80 years ago to accomplish variable electric drive.

    Nowadays most cnc lathes use same idea: high torque electric motor with large rpm range that lets you cover entire speed range from zero to 4000 rpm without gearings.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Ease of adjustability and smoothness are probably main benefits of the 10ee drive system.

    Why others didn’t use it? Too complicated/expensive especially for large lathes. And lesser lathes were fine with less rpm range. 10000 dollar drive on 1000 dollar south bend doesnt make sense.

    Electric motor driving another was normal or pretty much only way 80 years ago to accomplish variable electric drive.

    Nowadays most cnc lathes use same idea: high torque electric motor with large rpm range that lets you cover entire speed range from zero to 4000 rpm without gearings.
    Which would be a very large servo motor + drive?
    This thing has a total of four motors to drive one spindal...

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    I've decided to gut the original drive system, replace it with one of those 90v treadmill motors. I am also intrigued by a recent ELS project on YouTube, so I'm going to sell all the gears on the 10EE and where the round emblem is for the speeds and feeds, replace it with an LCD display for the ELS. The Tachometer will get similar treatment.
    The main spindle bearings require lube, and that is messy, think I will replace them with sealed wheel axle bearings for simplicity. I'm going to use a hammer and chisel to extract them.




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  9. #19
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    Mar 2015
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    Upon further inspection, something VERY interesting has been discovered. Where is the Exciter motor? All I see is a housing for a blower fan and exhaust out the side... There is no belt with a motor above...



    And the backside of the long MG unit...


    With the wiring being new, that mystery box being there, perhaps at some point the Navy or FSU updated the drive? Well, obviously some one did do something!

    I was also playing with the gear selector, what an amazingly beautiful design. One knob to switch between thread and feed, another to select range on the dial. I'd hope one of you would come to my house at gunpoint to rescue this lathe from me if I was to gut any of that.
    I am running on the assumption that it works, everything works, and will save up for a rotary phase converter(a really good 15 to 20 HP one), run 3 phase around the shop. In the meantime will keep cleaning it up. Going to sell my last tractor and put the surface grinder where the tractor currently is.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    Mar 2015
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    Alright, so that is what they mean by "piggy back" vs "inline". I obviously have the inline as I recall some one telling me earlier. Sorry folks, I clearly put the cart before the horse, buying a lathe I knew nothing about, only to do my research after the fact. Actually a lot more fun that way...
    Another question, I don't really need to double the HP rating of a RPC for this thing do I? I'd imagine that a 10hp RPC would actually be more than enough since there is no heavy starting torque... I can't stop admiring this lathe...

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