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Thread: 10EE inspection

  1. #61
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    Yeah, like I thought the variac is for the field weakening. You cant get past base speed without it, which is what you are hitting. Once you hot base speed then you adjust the variac and you should start accelerating.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by macona View Post
    Yeah, like I thought the variac is for the field weakening. You cant get past base speed without it, which is what you are hitting. Once you hot base speed then you adjust the variac and you should start accelerating.
    Yep, that will be my next project after the shop wiring is done. The car took longer than expected

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  3. #63
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    All the threads and feeds work, and mechanical threading stop.
    Manually turning the variac on the front does nothing.

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  4. #64
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    Wait a minute... Why not rebuild the Rheostat for the field winding? If it is even bad? Ok, next visit home I am going to go over this lathe with a fine tooth comb

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  5. #65
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    Mar 2008
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    Kent, U.K.
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    The rheostat might be fine but there might be a bad relay. I think a bad FA relay can stop the field weakening bit working. Cal Haines would know.
    Peter - novice home machinist, modern motorcycle enthusiast.

    Denford Viceroy 280 Synchro (11 x 24)
    Herbert 0V adapted to R8 by 'Sir John'.
    Monarch 10EE 1942

  6. #66
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    Mar 2005
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    Peralta, New Mexico USA
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    Can you trace any of the wiring to/from the variac? If it is supplying the field you should see an effect on the motor speed, most noticeable when the armature voltage and motor speed is at its greatest. Might be handy to know the armature voltage range as well as the field voltage range.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkepler View Post
    Can you trace any of the wiring to/from the variac? If it is supplying the field you should see an effect on the motor speed, most noticeable when the armature voltage and motor speed is at its greatest. Might be handy to know the armature voltage range as well as the field voltage range.
    I'm nearing going back to work. Just finished the big items on the cars. Next visit home I will spend considerable time on it.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I been watching this 10EE thread(s) going for awhile. And I been wondering,,,,,,,
    What is it about that complicated drive that tops all the others,?
    If that DC drive was so good, why hasnt Clausing, LeBlonde, American, Pacemaker, South Bend, Logan, and the rest haven't adopted it? Why didn't they adopt that 60 years ago?
    Why is the DC motor drive a seemingly new thing on the machines as of lately?
    Why go to the trouble of a electric motor driving a electric generator, to drive another motor?
    OMG !!! the parasitic losses are tremendous !!!!
    You would be efficiency ahead if you simply had a gas generator driving the final DC drive and be done with it !!!
    Why is this thing so complicated and it seems no one else adopted the technology?
    Just an inquiring mind that asks to know.......
    Other manufacturers never really emulated the 10EE speed control system because it is absurdly expensive to implement for general production. Machine design and production is what I do professionally and just looking at the design makes me snicker a little at the thought of trying to convince a client to pursue that decision, except in very special situations. But thatís the key point, the 10EE was intended to fill a niche in very particular circumstances and it was never a niche that supported much competition. It still doesnít.

    The 10EE speed control provided the extremely fine level of speed control that really didnít have a parallel until the advent of high speed PWM digital systems. Inexpensive frequency drives still donít offer the same level of performance, youíve got to spend real money to get into that level of signal consistency and sustainability.

    Do the differences matter? For most applications, no, but most applications donít need the level of mechanical precision these machines are capable of either. They were made for applications that blur the lines between what can be done with direct contact mechanisms and weird things like air bearing chucks that will make complete revolutions if you drop an eyelash on them.

    The most extreme applications were the machining of fissile materials. The materials used in enriched weapons cores are infamously prone to near room temperature state change in process. Tiny inconsistencies in speed or pressure cause areas of the workpiece to actually change state for picoseconds and create the most expensive rework imaginable. Thereís no way to correct the mistake and retain critical fissility (meaning no big boom) so it has to be recast and a new blank started. Many types of proximity fuzes, like those once pioneered by Harry Diamond Laboratories and second only to the big bomb in importance as a strategic advantage during WWII and well into the 1960ís also required the absolute speed consistency and control the 10EE was designed to deliver.

    Less explodey but requiring similarly high levels of performance to ensure as close to net-shape as possible were the pumps in rockets, superchargers, the mechanical guidance systems in everything that flies at super high speeds, and the targets in particular accelerators. The latter leading directly to the ultra dense semiconductors that let us have the snazzy PWM speed controls and other digital components we all use today.

    That got away from me, but you can sum it up like this. There wasnít a big enough market for a bunch of manufacturers to be producing equipment for such tiny specialty markets that made demands that couldnít be met without the use of similarly complex and expensive designs. Any high quality machine makers of the day could have done it, but Monarch won the space and the rest is history.

  9. #69
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    Dallas, Texas
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    Very nice write up! Having a fully functional original EE that always puts a smile on my face when putting it through its paces, this kinda stuff is always nice to hear.

  10. #70
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    Mar 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by irritable_badger View Post
    Other manufacturers never really emulated the 10EE speed control system because it is absurdly expensive to implement for general production. Machine design and production is what I do professionally and just looking at the design makes me snicker a little at the thought of trying to convince a client to pursue that decision, except in very special situations. But thatís the key point, the 10EE was intended to fill a niche in very particular circumstances and it was never a niche that supported much competition. It still doesnít.

    The 10EE speed control provided the extremely fine level of speed control that really didnít have a parallel until the advent of high speed PWM digital systems. Inexpensive frequency drives still donít offer the same level of performance, youíve got to spend real money to get into that level of signal consistency and sustainability.

    Do the differences matter? For most applications, no, but most applications donít need the level of mechanical precision these machines are capable of either. They were made for applications that blur the lines between what can be done with direct contact mechanisms and weird things like air bearing chucks that will make complete revolutions if you drop an eyelash on them.

    The most extreme applications were the machining of fissile materials. The materials used in enriched weapons cores are infamously prone to near room temperature state change in process. Tiny inconsistencies in speed or pressure cause areas of the workpiece to actually change state for picoseconds and create the most expensive rework imaginable. Thereís no way to correct the mistake and retain critical fissility (meaning no big boom) so it has to be recast and a new blank started. Many types of proximity fuzes, like those once pioneered by Harry Diamond Laboratories and second only to the big bomb in importance as a strategic advantage during WWII and well into the 1960ís also required the absolute speed consistency and control the 10EE was designed to deliver.

    Less explodey but requiring similarly high levels of performance to ensure as close to net-shape as possible were the pumps in rockets, superchargers, the mechanical guidance systems in everything that flies at super high speeds, and the targets in particular accelerators. The latter leading directly to the ultra dense semiconductors that let us have the snazzy PWM speed controls and other digital components we all use today.

    That got away from me, but you can sum it up like this. There wasnít a big enough market for a bunch of manufacturers to be producing equipment for such tiny specialty markets that made demands that couldnít be met without the use of similarly complex and expensive designs. Any high quality machine makers of the day could have done it, but Monarch won the space and the rest is history.
    Well, I hope it is up to the task of building scale steam locomotives, miniature IC engines, and models of construction equipment.


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