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Thread: OT: Sad day in aviation: Collings B17 has crashed

  1. #11
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    I don't profess to be any sor of an aviation expert, but I have to admit I was always surprised to hear that these things were still being flown at all. I mean, being in excess of seventy years old, built in a rush in the first place, with an expected lifespan of something like two sorties, tops, there has to be things like metal fatigue and whatnot going on.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are still flying, but actual flight, of course, puts considerable wear-and-tear on what are rapidly becoming precious antiques.

    I mean, I'd love to see the Blackbird fly again, but on the flip side I'd hate to see it crash, losing another example of a rare and noteworthy aircraft. (Besides the concurrent inevitable loss of life.)

    Des anyone yet know what caused this crash?

    Doc.
    Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Nickel View Post
    I don't profess to be any sor of an aviation expert, but I have to admit I was always surprised to hear that these things were still being flown at all. I mean, being in excess of seventy years old, built in a rush in the first place, with an expected lifespan of something like two sorties, tops, there has to be things like metal fatigue and whatnot going on.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are still flying, but actual flight, of course, puts considerable wear-and-tear on what are rapidly becoming precious antiques.

    I mean, I'd love to see the Blackbird fly again, but on the flip side I'd hate to see it crash, losing another example of a rare and noteworthy aircraft. (Besides the concurrent inevitable loss of life.)

    Des anyone yet know what caused this crash?

    Doc.
    Reports of the #3 engine taking a dump. I have no idea on a B17 how much that would affect climb out with 13 people on board.
    As to the question about flying these things still, let me ask a question as a rebuttal. Should we still run steam locomotives or make them all static displays?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Nickel View Post
    I don't profess to be any sor of an aviation expert, but I have to admit I was always surprised to hear that these things were still being flown at all. I mean, being in excess of seventy years old, built in a rush in the first place, with an expected lifespan of something like two sorties, tops, there has to be things like metal fatigue and whatnot going on.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that they are still flying, but actual flight, of course, puts considerable wear-and-tear on what are rapidly becoming precious antiques.

    I mean, I'd love to see the Blackbird fly again, but on the flip side I'd hate to see it crash, losing another example of a rare and noteworthy aircraft. (Besides the concurrent inevitable loss of life.)

    Des anyone yet know what caused this crash?

    Doc.
    We've got a warplane museum nearby with the only flying Lancaster in North America. Every year it goes through a complete overhaul and inspection to make sure it's still in flying shape. During the summer it's up most weekends, gets inspected after so many hours of flying, and gets the detailed inspection over the winter. When you think about it the 22,000lbs Grand Slam bombs the Lanc could carry are a bit heavier than the dozen or so adults it carries now, no where near it's operational limits so that's got to factor in. However, I am waiting the day when they announce they'll be reducing the flight schedule due to the age and difficulty in finding spare parts.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom S View Post
    We've got a warplane museum nearby with the only flying Lancaster in North America. Every year it goes through a complete overhaul and inspection to make sure it's still in flying shape. During the summer it's up most weekends, gets inspected after so many hours of flying, and gets the detailed inspection over the winter. When you think about it the 22,000lbs Grand Slam bombs the Lanc could carry are a bit heavier than the dozen or so adults it carries now, no where near it's operational limits so that's got to factor in. However, I am waiting the day when they announce they'll be reducing the flight schedule due to the age and difficulty in finding spare parts.
    Well, those old engines also put out a bit more power with 140LL vs the 100LL used today.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom S View Post
    When you think about it the 22,000lbs Grand Slam bombs the Lanc could carry are a bit heavier than the dozen or so adults it carries now, no where near it's operational limits so that's got to factor in.
    22,000 lbs would be heavier than 100 passengers, so a dozen passengers would be waaaay below the operational limits.

  6. #16
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    Sad.
    Paul A.

    Make it fit.
    You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

  7. #17
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    I had the pleasure of riding in the Nine-o-nine three years ago. I won't say that it was a great experience. I'll let the picture speak for itself.


    That's my reaction shortly after take off from the Livermore, Ca airport. I'd waited 4 hours for the flight.

    Some pictures of the plane...

    A view of Concord California from the navigator/bombardier's seat (a couple thousand feet up)


    How about a couple of videos of my flight? The first one is the 909 taking off just an hour before my flight. Totally unedited. It's only 30 seconds. I can't get the links to show up as video, so you will need to click on the link to view.
    https://imgur.com/dJtR5sS
    The second one is the side gunner's view during a takeoff. 60 seconds.
    https://i.imgur.com/BwNzTHI.mp4

    It's a miracle that any of the passengers survived. Note that all of us were sitting on the floor on thin cushions. When we took off there was a person in the bombardier's seat as well.
    Last edited by danlb; 10-03-2019 at 11:00 AM.
    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

  8. #18
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    The only warbird I ever rode on was a PBY Catalina, out of Miami. Remember it very well to this day. Be ashame to make them all static displays.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RB211 View Post
    Reports of the #3 engine taking a dump. I have no idea on a B17 how much that would affect climb out with 13 people on board.
    As to the question about flying these things still, let me ask a question as a rebuttal. Should we still run steam locomotives or make them all static displays?
    On the news last night they had the pilot saying he wanted to return due to #4 engine,,,

    either way, i never thought just losing one engine on something like this and with such a light load would be such a factor, I think they stated they had 900ft when things shot craps...

    it is very sad indeed

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    On the news last night they had the pilot saying he wanted to return due to #4 engine,,,

    either way, i never thought just losing one engine on something like this and with such a light load would be such a factor, I think they stated they had 900ft when things shot craps...

    it is very sad indeed
    It's puzzling, perhaps the prop didn't feather and created a lot of drag. No idea what really happened. Flying those things is an entirely different world than what I am now used to. I am spoiled by insane amounts of excess thrust. An engine out for me is a non event almost. Used to instruct multi-engine in light reciprocating twins and an engine out was a very critical thing that was life and death. Sad day for aviation.

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