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Thread: More sensible vise selection advise please!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    BTW, I hope your son recovers soon from whatever he is in the hospital for.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    A very hearty "ME TOO!" on that front....
    Thanks guys, appreciate it. He's only 7. Stupid insurance company thought I would be happy to fly home and leave him and my wife alone in a foreign hospital. Got more chance of fitting a 6" Kurt on my table than that happening!

    Have followed Paul's advise and made 1:1 cut-outs of the footprint. Pictured from left to right are 70mm, 90mm and existing 3" tilt and swivel. As you can see, it looks like 70mm is the better bet unless I'm going to rotate it 90. Given that Stefan can't stand that setup....and also that it's really repeating the same mistake I've already made trying to squeeze a 4" vise (not pictured) on there, I think that's a bad plan. The aim is to reduce height (would remove the swivel McGyver but because it is also a tilt, it wouldn't gain me much height back and would make mounting difficult as the holes are at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock in this picture) and reduce the amount of leverage that the vise has on the y axis of the table. Worst case, if necessary I can always swap one of the other vises in if they are more suitable. There's also direct clamping and if I need something to hang out of the vise that much, it might give me the kick to make a machinist jack that I've been watching videos for and thinking that I must get round to making one of those. We all have a long list of stuff to make when we have time, right?! Worst case, mount a second 70mm vise at the other end of the table if there were many jobs that required that length.

    BCRider: that drilling vise is certainly interesting and I could drive to Chronos fairly easily - they seem pretty good to deal with in-person when I went once. The low profile is good but it's twice the length of the 70mm screwless and 50% longer than the 90mm that already looks comically too long.
    Hadn't really thought about being able to mount it on its end or side. I don't currently see a need for it but like you say, if you have the option (and are aware of it!), it's bound to come in useful in some sort of problem-solving setup.



    Excuse the mess....had other things on my mind than tidying lately and my shop goes from tidy to messy as I work and then back again when I clean up because I can't stand the mess.
    Chucked is just a 12mm HSS round blank I was using as a sort of pointer to visualise something. Nice safe round 'edges' for when I almost certainly brush a hand against it

  2. #22
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    Jul 2017
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    Looking at your photo, I would favor a *pair* of 50mm vises or direct clamping wherever possible. I have this idea that the most direct (work holding, clamping) way is always the best when possible.

  3. #23
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    When I mentioned earlier that you had compact size machines I don't think I realized just how compact....

    Looking at the cutouts laying there I'd say a 90 would be a big step up (down? ) from the lump of a thing to the right. But really you're 110% right and the 70 looks like a better option to fit on this table.

    For things that won't fit between the jaws of a 70 an option you might consider for a future project is to make up a two part "free jaw" vise. It's a fairly simple project that involves a fixed jaw block that bolts down with the face running front to back. Then the other movable jaw slides along and comes up against the work. The movable jaw being basically two parts. One part is the body that clamps to the table and the other is wedge shaped and is drawn down to pinch the work in place. The table of the mill becomes the body of the vise. It's a grand idea provided one does not get greedy with the height of the jaws. The common complaint being that the forces involved try to flex the table into an arc. But if the jaw height is kept to 1 or maybe 1.25" (25 to 30mm) the forces should be lower and good workable results obtained.

    Or the other option I've considered and that I'm leaning towards is a longish fixed jaw and then use single or multiple separate jaws as needed for the size of part.

    It's on the list of projects for this winter. And of course I'll share it here be it successful or a comedy of errors.

  4. #24
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    BCRider: I did mean it when I said small. Same applies to the entire shop. I did look (longingly) at slightly larger models but the increase in Y size means I wouldn't be able to properly open the door! Also not sure I'd have enough space to stand in front of it if I'm honest.
    The "lump of a thing" is actually quite good in terms of squareness, parallelism etc. It's spec'd at 30 microns - and I'll grant you there is spec and reality but it measures pretty well on my (cheap - and hence clearly reliable and accurate ) DTI. It's mainly that its burdened with all that unnecessary height for the features I was convinced (wrongly, obviously) I would need. I think I may have used the tilt once for some relief on an angled cut (TCMT holder) and the swivel, never.

    Have thought a few times about a two-part vise. Might have to add that and some low-profile clamps to the list of stuff to make - the latter and a fence might even work in lieu of a two-part.

    Nickel-city-fab: I don't often (so far) have parts that extend all that far. Is that the only reason you'd suggest a pair of 50's or are you thinking the 70 is still too big?
    I've definitely been doing some direct clamping but depending on the part, sometimes it's quite easy to run out of space on a 4" deep table. Sometimes as well, you just want to throw it in a vise and have at it in an ill-advised and unplanned fashion

  5. #25
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    My "lump of a thing" I only intended to refer to the size of it compared to the mill's working room. Sorry....

    Joe Pi on YT has a video that showcases is double Kurt setup and how handy it is at times. I'm guessing that NCF suggested a pair of 50's as a comparable option for you. Even better, of course, would be a pair of the 70's set up with the fixed jaws dialed in to be in line. For working on any longer items it could prove to be very handy.

    A whole bunch of times now I've used my 5C collet blocks to do jobs that needed simple indexing of up to 6 facets. So a big part for me would be the ability to hold the collet blocks in whatever vise I should get. My present vise has jaws that are 1.25"/30mm tall. And that just works with the hex block sitting on one of the apexes where the flat sides are still securely held in the jaws. So with that in mind I would not want to get a general use vise with jaws that were not as deep.... and if you don't have any collet blocks yet that you should get some. Super handy things.


    On a hunch I looked to see if there's any ER collet blocks.... never thought to look before since I already have the 5C collets and blocks. I see that there are ER32 collet blocks available. But at 45mmx45mm for the square block and roughly the same size as my square 5C block you'll still want jaws for general use that are 30 to 32mm tall.

  6. #26
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    I've got the set of square and hex ER32 collet blocks. I think I only needed the square....but it was clearly going to be cheaper to buy both as a discounted set
    What puts me off about the 50's is that (from that shop) they're 45mm and they don't have side-clamping slots. They do sell hold-down toe clamps but I would have thought you're surely going to find that they constantly interfere with the jaws. Also, it's not stated but I'm figuring that jaw depth must be shallower and opening definitely is. I think I'd probably buy one and I can always add a second if I come to need it. I will look up the Joe Pi videos though....just to make sure I don't end up with twin-vise envy

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenedd View Post
    Nickel-city-fab: I don't often (so far) have parts that extend all that far. Is that the only reason you'd suggest a pair of 50's or are you thinking the 70 is still too big?
    I've definitely been doing some direct clamping but depending on the part, sometimes it's quite easy to run out of space on a 4" deep table. Sometimes as well, you just want to throw it in a vise and have at it in an ill-advised and unplanned fashion
    Yes I think a 70 may be a bit large yet -- I figured a pair of 50's would be a good idea in case you had larger parts or longer parts. I know what you mean about having a small shop (my space is only 6x10, or 2 metres x 3 metres) I have to go outside to change my mind, and inside to use the bathroom.

  8. #28
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    One thing that I did that may not be obvious in my photos in the other thread was to add lines on my cardboard cutouts at my best estimate of where the fixed jaw would be and where the movable jaw would be at the full open position. Then I moved the table around with the handwheels to see if those jaw lines could be reached by the spindle. If you can't get the spindle to it, then it is not part of your work envelope and is wasted vise capacity. There is a small area with my 5" vise that can not be reached. It is small so I can neglect it and it allow me to hold larger parts even if I can't work on every part of them. And the alternative of going to a smaller (4"?) vise would lose a lot of what the 5" gives me so I felt that the 5" was the best size for my table. It does hang out quite a bit over the front table edge; enough so that I need to add a light to aid my reading of the Y axis scale. I have a LED goose neck that I plan to use.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cenedd View Post
    Thanks guys, appreciate it. He's only 7. Stupid insurance company thought I would be happy to fly home and leave him and my wife alone in a foreign hospital. Got more chance of fitting a 6" Kurt on my table than that happening!

    Have followed Paul's advise and made 1:1 cut-outs of the footprint. Pictured from left to right are 70mm, 90mm and existing 3" tilt and swivel. As you can see, it looks like 70mm is the better bet unless I'm going to rotate it 90. Given that Stefan can't stand that setup....and also that it's really repeating the same mistake I've already made trying to squeeze a 4" vise (not pictured) on there, I think that's a bad plan. The aim is to reduce height (would remove the swivel McGyver but because it is also a tilt, it wouldn't gain me much height back and would make mounting difficult as the holes are at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock in this picture) and reduce the amount of leverage that the vise has on the y axis of the table. Worst case, if necessary I can always swap one of the other vises in if they are more suitable. There's also direct clamping and if I need something to hang out of the vise that much, it might give me the kick to make a machinist jack that I've been watching videos for and thinking that I must get round to making one of those. We all have a long list of stuff to make when we have time, right?! Worst case, mount a second 70mm vise at the other end of the table if there were many jobs that required that length.

    BCRider: that drilling vise is certainly interesting and I could drive to Chronos fairly easily - they seem pretty good to deal with in-person when I went once. The low profile is good but it's twice the length of the 70mm screwless and 50% longer than the 90mm that already looks comically too long.
    Hadn't really thought about being able to mount it on its end or side. I don't currently see a need for it but like you say, if you have the option (and are aware of it!), it's bound to come in useful in some sort of problem-solving setup.



    Excuse the mess....had other things on my mind than tidying lately and my shop goes from tidy to messy as I work and then back again when I clean up because I can't stand the mess.
    Chucked is just a 12mm HSS round blank I was using as a sort of pointer to visualise something. Nice safe round 'edges' for when I almost certainly brush a hand against it
    Paul A.

    Make it fit.
    You can't win and there is a penalty for trying!

  9. #29
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    Missouri
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    There are other vise types, IF you do not need to swivel, which in many cases is not needed.

    Here is one I made myself, but there are commercial versions of it as well. This one was made for a mill that had only one table slot.

    Benefit is no reduction of "daylight", and the jaws open almost as wide as the table is long.

    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

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