how many HP can a 5HP horse, if 5HP can horse

[andy_b]

WOW, the last time i visited was back in March! hope you guys all got a lot completed over the summer (i see Thrud almost got himself "completed", but sounds like he's doing better).

i put in a 22'x32' polebarn, finished my JD 40U (even got to rebuild the hydraulic pump twice), started tearing apart the Farmall F-14, cut down about 50 trees, dragged home a bunch of other crazy machines, finished a bunch of woodworking creations for my parents, rebuilt half of an Oliver OC-46, cleaned out the garage/shop enough to actually use it as a garage AND a shop, and even had time to get my Rotary Phase Converter built and mounted on a dolly.

which brings me to my question (eventually). now that winter is approaching and my outdoor projects are about finished for the year, i'm working on getting my collection of old metalworking machines running. my RPC uses a 5HP 1725 RPM compressor motor. i have it fairly well balanced and the baby fires up in about 1/10 of a second. i've used it to run a 1.5 HP motor on a tablesaw, a 2HP motor on a woodworking shaper, and a 1.5 HP motor on my latest find, a Delta 31-730 belt/disc sander. all these machines fire right up with the RPC. my next goal is to get the beast of a G&E metal shaper running. it has a 5HP Diehl motor. i was cleaning it tonight and the motor assembly tag is still on it. it was built in April of 1939!!!! anyways, it doesn't want to start spinning (turns about 15-30 degrees and stalls). the shaper was being used up until it was hauled out of the old shop and auctioned, so the motor should run, but it has been in my garage since the beginning of the year. it is a little tight to turn (doesn't just spin freely like the motor on the RPC). i pulled the belts off of it, so the only thing it needs to turn is itself. the bushings show no signs of rust, so i'm guessing it just needs to get spinning a few times to get the bushings relubed, and it should run fine.

finally, my questions. any tips to loosen the motor up? will my 5HP RPC get this baby spinning? if not, i heard if i would fire up say the 2HP shaper and then try to start the 5HP shaper, the extra 2HP motor will allow me to get the 5HP started. i was thinking of maybe wiring the 5HP Diehl motor into the RPC (and disconnect the present 5HP motor) and see if i can directly start the 5HP Diehl motor with my capacitor network in the RPC. any thoughts on if this will work (and if it is a good idea)? my setup is wired to handle 30 Amps, so i should be within tolerances for getting all this stuff running (i think). if not, i can bump everything up to the 50 Amp limit on the outlet.

thanks for any words of wisdom, and i hope to be back on regularly now that the "indoor projects season" is upon me.

andy b.

[ibewgypsie]

Take the end cap off, knock the dirt daubers out of it.

Serious. Them rascals get into everything.

If it won't spin w.no belt you have a mechanical problem.

David.

[andy_b]

David,

i see you have almost everything in your shop computer controlled now. heck, half my stuff isn't even human controlled at present. are you saying the ends of the old Diehl motor can be unbolted, or just the portion containing the bushings? there is so much grease and swarf on the thing i was lucky to even find the oiling caps.
:-)

i definitely think if i can get the motor turning freely just by spinning it, then it will fire up with my RPC. i'll see if i can find a way to get the ends off. the machine has been stored inside its entire life though, so i'm not sure what creatures could have gotten into it. i did once find an opossum in the garage. i still have no idea how it got in there.

andy b.

[J Tiers]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ibewgypsie:
Take the end cap off, knock the dirt daubers out of it.

Serious. Them rascals get into everything.

If it won't spin w.no belt you have a mechanical problem.

David.</font>

Yep, daubers were in my old 1 HP compressor motor. Ruint the start switch, so I dang near melted the motor trying to start it with the switch stuck on. I put a clamp meter on it, and the needle was north of 50A and headed farther when I hit the switch. The motor was barely turning.

That's when I found the dauber nests, as they and some of the bugs teh daubers had stored in the nests came tumbling out of the end bell...had to toss that motor.

BTW, it was used indoors. They must have come in the garage thru a crack and pasted the motor up while it wasn't being used.

[Thrud]

Andy

Generally speaking you should have a larger RPC than what you are driving. It might work fine with wht you have, but the reason for this is when the machine starts to grunt a little the RPC needs some head room or you run into trouble - then the smoke escapes ...

[ibewgypsie]

While you are at it.. check the voltage taps in the motor peckerhead box there..

Low voltage lines 1&7,2&8,3&9, 4&5&6 together

High voltage lines 1,2,3, 4&7, 5&8, 6&9 together

Sometimes the euro motors have lil bars you swap around in there. Otherwise you need red scotchloks to tap motor leads..

If you have a idler motor running on your RPC it'll help start the #2 motor. The more running the smoother the power pulses generated.

Hope it helps.. David

[wierdscience]

I have found that adding heavy flywheel to the RPC inproves starting and loading conditions.I put a 25lb 8" od flywheel on my 3hp which will start a lighly loaded 5hp since I added it.

Better yet if you use my method of starting the RPC,then its a lot less touchy on hard starting machines.
All I do is use a common centrifugal switch mounted to the shaft (availible from Graingers) and a start cap.Since the system is dependant on shaft RPM when or if the RPC ever drops below 85% of running speed the start cap will kick in and give the extra boost to get it over the hump.Plus using this method you don't need the run caps or any complicated circuits to start the RPC.

[andy_b]

weirdscience,

you have just given me an idea. if it wasn't for the fact i am in shorts and the garage is a chilly 100 foot walk from the house, i would go out right now and try it. i can manually turn on my start cap. i think i will turn it on when i hit the starter for the shaper. i will give an update tomorrow afternoon and let you know if it works.

andy b.

[andy_b]

weirdscience,

your words are ear-delicious!!!!!! i tried turning on my start cap when i hit the starter for the shaper, and SHAZAM!!!! the shaper motor spun right up!!! i'd give you a big kiss (not on the lips) if you were nearby.

i now have a working shaper!!! a whole new world to learn. time to eat dinner and relax with visions of "rotary motion being turned into horizontal motion" in my head.
:-)

andy b.

[wierdscience]

Just a note,shapers make excellent magazine fed nut crackers Hickory nuts? No problem