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  • #16
    Originally posted by Boostinjdm View Post
    I'm going to muddy things up here a bit, but is that change in z over the linear length from small end to big end? Or the length of the spiral. Those two lengths will be different and might account for your slope being off. I could see making that mistake if you hand wrote the code.
    The code was hand written. Change in Z is over the linear length from small end to large end.
    Harold
    For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
    Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

    Comment


    • #17
      A daft question but why did you program a taper rather than set the work up with the top edge level?
      If you benefit from the Dunning-Kruger Effect you may not even know it ;-)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Magicniner View Post
        A daft question but why did you program a taper rather than set the work up with the top edge level?
        This is NOT a "daft" question! It's a logical, legitimate question that poses the prospect for practicality. It's also a question that merits an answer.

        My 4th Axis has been the *CURSE* of my shop and in some respects the bane of my existence.

        As you can see with the included image, my 4th Axis has no provision for setting/adjusting angle of the 4th Axis. Unlike the dividing heads used on my manual mills, the 4th Axis can only be used in a horizontal position. In fact, though it may appear possible, the 4th Axis cannot be used in a vertical position because the stepper motor interferes with positioning if attempting to position the 4th Axis in the vertical position.






        Though a TRUE 4th Axis, “it is what it is”. The 4th Axis came, as is, with my CNC Mill and I have little choice but to use that particular 4th Axis with my machine. I bought the machine NEW. It’s a Bridgeport style 10 X 54 mill. Controller, drivers, program, etc., are proprietary thus accepting no other type programs or 4th Axis. And YES, I could spend thousands of dollars to change out motors, controller, drivers, and program but I simply can’t afford the amount it would take to make such changes. Like most everyone on this Forum, I am a Hobby Shop and not a real Machine Shop.

        I looked into buying a different 4th Axis but the company owner/manufacturer ensured me that no other 4th Axis would work citing various controller/driver/programing reasons (which was totally above my pay-grade with respect to knowledge). I considered buying a Fadal or Haas but both were totally out of my financial range.

        I really like my mill and I can do most anything I desire but with few exceptions. As stated, “it is what it is”.

        Since making the photographic image of the 4th Axis, I have made some physical changes regarding the ability to alter angulations of the 4th Axis. That has led to further complications and consternation.



        Though I have “somewhat ability” to change angulations on the head, it takes FOREVER to set angulations and return to a near perfect horizontal position. I will easily spend three full days dialing in the head to a horizontal position. With that said, the head has a propensity for slight drifting requiring slight tweaking on a regular basis. Plainly stated, the 4th Axis is nothing more that a cheap rotary table that’s been converted to a true 4th Axis. It’s NOT sturdy/tight and subject to even slightest axial or lateral loading forces.

        In short, rather than changing the head’s angulations, to include the tail stock (taking several days) and then changing back to horizontal (taking an additional three days), it’s easier and more time efficient to write a program to “cut a taper”.

        I DO so wish I could get a different 4th Axis that’s specifically designed to be used as a real 4th Axis on this machine and one that tolerates loading and angle changes but it’s not a financial option.

        That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

        Harold
        Last edited by hwingo; 04-23-2016, 05:11 PM.
        For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
        Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

        Comment


        • #19
          Harold,
          Ditch the adjustable angle plate and invest in a Sine Plate, accurate angle setting is then just a simple calculation and the correct stack of gauge blocks away,
          Regards,
          Nick
          If you benefit from the Dunning-Kruger Effect you may not even know it ;-)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by hwingo View Post

            My 4th Axis has been the *CURSE* of my shop and in some respects the bane of my existence.



            Though a TRUE 4th Axis, “it is what it is”. The 4th Axis came, as is, with my CNC Mill and I have little choice but to use that particular 4th Axis with my machine. I bought the machine NEW. It’s a Bridgeport style 10 X 54 mill. Controller, drivers, program, etc., are proprietary thus accepting no other type programs or 4th Axis.

            I looked into buying a different 4th Axis but the company owner/manufacturer ensured me that no other 4th Axis would work citing various controller/driver/programing reasons (which was totally above my pay-grade with respect to knowledge).


            Harold
            That's a total load of bollocks.
            That 4th axis is must a manual axis converted to stepper drive and as such ANY 4th axis will fit provided that you keep the same type motor and possibly gearing if you can't access the parameters.

            No reason why you cannot use a BS0 or BS1 dividing head converted to stepper drive.

            They have spoilt a perfectly good machine by tying it up with a proprietary controller that makes it the weak link in an otherwise good setup.
            .

            Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by John Stevenson View Post
              That's a total load of bollocks.
              That 4th axis is must a manual axis converted to stepper drive and as such ANY 4th axis will fit provided that you keep the same type motor and possibly gearing if you can't access the parameters.

              No reason why you cannot use a BS0 or BS1 dividing head converted to stepper drive.

              They have spoilt a perfectly good machine by tying it up with a proprietary controller that makes it the weak link in an otherwise good setup.
              Hi John,

              Regarding proprietary controller, I agree (now that I am learning a wee bit more about code and CNC machines). As I previously stated, for the most part, I can do most everything I want. There are certainly drawbacks to my system. For example, if I attempt to run a program written using someone else's software, the program may or may not work on my machine because I am limited to a certain number of G-Codes (and those codes are precious few). Stated differently, if someone's program uses G-Codes that are not a part of "my library", my system will "choke". Another example is, for a program to run on my machine, a program must be written exclusively in either ABS **or** INC. The machine will not "play" with a program written in a mixture of ABS and INC. The machine defaults to ABS so most everything I do is written in ABS. I have experienced some problems with KIPWARE (because of mixed code) but as of yet I have experienced no problems with CAMBAM. More sophisticated programs will likely not run on my computer. Gearotics is another program that works quite well on my machine however CNC Wrapper does not work with my machine.

              I looked at buying a 4th & 5th axis from Vertex but when I spoke with the "top dog" of CNC Masters, I was told that Vertex will not operate using my system. Sigh!

              Perhaps I am totally wrong but I think the main problem with my 4th Axis is, it's not "solid" (sturdy). The shaft has a lot of play and the bearings are weak. I can tighten the thrust bearings (?) to eliminate considerable play but now the motor is over-worked and the timing belt wears out in no time at all.

              I can see room for improvement BUT as is, I can still do most everything I want.

              Oh yeah, another thing is, my fastest spindle speed is 5000 RPM. Most of the more advanced machines have a spindle speed of 10K, 15K. 30K. I know I can get a spindle "speeder" but I hate to throw that much money into a "broken system".

              I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

              Harold
              Last edited by hwingo; 04-26-2016, 03:58 PM.
              For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
              Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

              Comment


              • #22
                One consolation, you take nice photos

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by elf View Post
                  One consolation, you take nice photos
                  Thanks!! I try my best.

                  Harold
                  For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
                  Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    g-code working from one machine to the next is always a hit-or-miss proposition. Some controllers us special codes. Thats why you need a post processor for most controllers.

                    5000rpm is standard for a knee mill like that. If you want faster you start getting into machines with oil-mist lubed spindles. Pretty much you are getting into VMC territory. Spindle speeders work, I have a Nikken one but they are a low duty cycle device. They get hot pretty fast. Better option is a high speed sub spindle like NSK makes, though they are very expensive new.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      hwingo: I don't know anything about your controller, but I was wondering if it has something in an offset register that would account for the discrepancy? A "Z" axis register, that is.

                      on edit: Just had another thought, do you not like to write a repeatable routine as a subroutine in incremental? Makes it much easier to edit and trouble shoot.

                      Sarge
                      Last edited by sarge41; 05-10-2016, 04:00 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sarge41 View Post
                        hwingo: I don't know anything about your controller, but I was wondering if it has something in an offset register that would account for the discrepancy? A "Z" axis register, that is.

                        on edit: Just had another thought, do you not like to write a repeatable routine as a subroutine in incremental? Makes it much easier to edit and trouble shoot.

                        Sarge
                        Good Morning Sarge41,

                        I finally identified my mistakes. I failed to take into account several things and once I revisited the code and made changes, the program worked like a charm. The attached image shows the results.

                        Thanks for your reply and contribution to this thread.
                        Harold

                        For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
                        Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          So what was the problem Harold ?
                          .

                          Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi John,
                            I did some basic changing but corrective changes which made the difference were in, for example, Lines 9, 15, 21, etc.

                            N01 (TEKA BARREL 2016)
                            N02 (3/8" BALL CUTTER)
                            N03 G0 Z0.250 (UP & AWAY)
                            N04 S3740 M03 (SPINDLE ON)
                            N05 (FLUTE #1)
                            N06 G0 Z0.050 (RAPID DOWN)
                            N07 (BEGIN FIRST CUT)
                            N08 G01 Z-0.010 F0.5 (LOWER CUTTER INTO METAL)
                            N09 G01 X-14.875 W360.0 Z0.044 F6.0 (SEND TABLE LEFT)
                            N10 G0 Z0.250 (UP & AWAY)
                            N11 G0 X0.0 W0.0 (BACK TO BEGINNING)
                            N12 G0 Z0.050 (RAPID DOWN)
                            N13 (BEGIN SECOND CUT)
                            N14 G01 Z-0.020 F0.5 (LOWER CUTTER INTO METAL)
                            N15 G01 X-14.875 W360.0 Z0.034 F6.0 (SEND TABLE LEFT)
                            N16 G0 Z0.284 (UP & AWAY)
                            N17 G0 X0.0 W0.0 (BACK TO BEGINNING)
                            N18 G0 Z0.050 (RAPID DOWN)
                            N19 (BEGIN FINAL CUT)
                            N20 G01 Z-0.024 F0.5 (LOWER CUTTER INTO METAL)
                            N21 G01 X-14.875 W0.0 Z0.030 F6.0 (SEND TABLE LEFT)
                            N22 G0 Z0.250 (UP & AWAY)
                            N23 G0 X0.0 W0.0 (BACK TO BEGINNING)
                            N24 G0 W60.0 (ROTATE 4th AXIS FOR SECOND FLUTE)
                            For those having fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
                            Freedom is only one generation away from extinction.

                            Comment

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