How do I make a square hole

[lazlo]

Wow, that's a neat video Peter! First time I've actually seen a Watts drill at work

Did the HSM article include how to build the floating tool holder?

A lot of the floating reamer holders have a two-way dovetail, which allows the head to slide in either the x- or the y-axis at a time, but it seems like that would give the Watts drill a strange stair-step movement through the square template. I guess that doesn't matter, since the movement is totally random, and you just keep drilling until all the material is gone.

Jerry: on your Watts-brand toolholder, is the float constrained to one axis at a time, or is it one of the fancy ball-bearing guides that allow movement in any direction?

[Peter N]

Lazlo, my mistake, it was Model Engineer, not MEW.
It was in Vol. 197, issue 4285, 27 October -9 November 2006.

It's a 5 page article, complete with all drawings needed to make the tooling.
Worth getting hold of a copy if you can, if not, then drop me a pm.

Peter

[lazlo]

Lazlo, my mistake, it was Model Engineer, not MEW.
It was in Vol. 197, issue 4285, 27 October -9 November 2006.

Doh. Model Engineer is Unobtanium in the US. I'll check Ebay...

[J Tiers]

Was there a video at the URL mentioned? Because whatever was there was NOT any video of any drill, that I can tell you. Just a bunch of funny patterns on the screen. Time to shut down and run virus-scan

The holder goes anywhere anytime. It seems quite free.

I do not believe it is in any way random....

That is just fuzzy-bean's idea, and we already know that he DOESN'T know diddly. The idea of it taking 4 hours to get a hole with the drill is insane, and bears no relation to any reality.

The movement seems to my eye to repeat the same path.

The marks at the bottom of the hole suggest that it repeats the same path.

[BadDog]

The funny patterns were probably just the default "ambiance" animations used for audio. WM and some others default to those images when they either don't have the video codec, or if the data is not properly formatted. So you wind up with audio, and "funny patterns" for the video. Not a virus or anything of the sort...

[lazlo]

Was there a video at the URL mentioned? Because whatever was there was NOT any video of any drill, that I can tell you. Just a bunch of funny patterns on the screen. Time to shut down and run virus-scan

The video works fine Jerry -- why would I compliment the video Peter posted if there wasn't any?
Like BadDog says, you're missing a codec -- it's not a virus.

The holder goes anywhere anytime. It seems quite free.

That's my definition of random

I do not believe it is in any way random....

That's why I was asking about the floating toolholder -- whether it was arbitrary free floating, or separately free-floating on the X- and Y-axis' like most floating tap holders.

If the Watts toolholder somehow allows truly free floating (i.e., the holder can move in arbitrary diagonals), then I would think the motion of the drill is truly random, since there's nothing constraining the drill in any particular path.

A Reuleaux Triangle (which the Watts drill is not) traces a square outline when the center axis follows a circular arc, but that's a different process:

[lazlo]

I remembered seeing a short video of this being done in the home workshop with some home-made equipment.

the clip can be found on the web page page below, and the one to look at is "percage trou carre.avi".

Link: http://maurel.meca.free.fr/Telechargement/

Thanks for that link Peter -- that guy has some really neat videos.

Look at the eccentric cams he built here:

http://maurel.meca.free.fr/Telechargement/engrenage-paradoxal123.avi

...and here:

http://maurel.meca.free.fr/Telechargement/engrenage-paradoxal222.avi

Jerry: I ran GSpot on the home-made Watts drill video -- it uses the 3ivx (MPEG4-based) codec. You can download it here:

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/3ivx.htm

[J. R. Williams]

Square hole

What's wrong with using a forge to heat the part and driving a square punch into or thru the part? The old blacksmiths had this mastered.

JRW

[J Tiers]

media flailer went out and got the codec, still no video. Pogga-pogga.

Random? Nope...... I think you forget that the holder requires the drill to rotate. And it also has a guide plate. The drill size is related to the guide plate size.

A much smaller drill WOULD probably randomly bounce around. But a moment's thought will show that the right size drill will NOT do that.

The drill goes around in a repeating pattern as the "edge" hits the side, and forces the drill to swing, then rotates along the side, and repeats as the next edge hits the guide. There is a rotating path around the square.

You can easily see the principle as you rotate the drill by hand in the guide. The drill very naturally takes a rotating path that travels around the square.

I do NOT think you can call that random.

The marks on the bottom of the hole CONFIRM the regular path. Instead of random scratches, they are a pattern that is the same at each side of the hole.

Sorry, but ol' fuzzy-bean has it completely wrong. I think his comments were influenced by the fact that he USED THE DRILL INCORRECTLY, had very poor results, and then cast about for explanations. He is "enthusiastic" but not what I would call "scientific" in his trial and discourse.

For the totally wrong way he used the drill, his explanation may BE right. But it has NOTHING at all to do with the practical use of the Watts drill system as designed.

For all those who think it is totally random "drunkard's walk" and a bad system, you should be aware that the holder , drills and plates contain mercury, PCBs, and other known carcinogens and lethal substances. I will take that hazardous Watts drill stuff off your hands as a public service, no charge.


OK, finally saw the video.....

It totally confirms the regular movement and path. Right at the end where it slows down, you can see that clearly

[lazlo]

What's wrong with using a forge to heat the part and driving a square punch into or thru the part? The old blacksmiths had this mastered.

That was suggested earlier, and I agree J.R. -- broaching it is a much more practical way to make a square hole. Aside from simplicity and low (virtually no) cost, it doesn't have the depth limits that the Rotary Broach and the Watts-type drills have (about 1.5 - 2x the drill/broach diameter).

[lazlo]

Random? Nope...... I think you forget that the holder requires the drill to rotate. And it also has a guide plate. The drill size is related to the guide plate size.

The drill goes around in a repeating pattern as the "edge" hits the side, and forces the drill to swing, then rotates along the side, and repeats as the next edge hits the guide. There is a rotating path around the square.

You should read the article from the old Toolmaker's Handbook (or maybe it was an ancient Popular Mechanics) that Fuzzbean posted describing how the Watts drill works. I posted it earlier in the thread:

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=Attach;ID=11847;f=8;t=17441;p=144456

After describing the Reuleaux Triangle, and how a Watts drill (with equilateral cutting blades) is different, they explain:
"If the [Watts-type] drill is made with sharp corners, straight sides, and a flat cutting face, it will not act like a regular drill with the cone-shaped profile of its self-centering cutting edges. A cone-shaped cutting profile would cause the drill to seek its center of rotation automatically. With the cutting edge in a flat plane, however, the drill is allowed to wander in whatever direction the cutting forces dictate."

OK, finally saw the video.....
It totally confirms the regular movement and path. Right at the end where it slows down, you can see that clearly

It's a low resolution video in a dark room -- how can you possible see whether the Watts drill, which is nearly perpendicular to the view angle, is banging randomly off the edges of the square jig as it rotates, or orbiting in circles?!

[J Tiers]

You should read the article from the old Toolmaker's Handbook (or maybe it was an ancient Popular Mechanics) that Fuzzbean posted describing how the Watts drill works. I posted it earlier in the thread:

It's a low resolution video in a dark room -- how can you possible see whether the Watts drill, which is nearly perpendicular to the view angle, is banging randomly off the edges of the square jig as it rotates, or orbiting in circles?!

1) I have the book from which the article comes......

2) you can easily see the motion of the holder as the spindle slows. The video seems quite light enough to see details and the motion. It is quite clear that the holder is moving "around" a center.

3) if you have a drill and simply spin it held in the hand while inserted in the square guide, it is again very clear that it 'wants to" move in a regular orbital path.

4) the pattern of tool marks in the hole absolutely show the regular orbital path.

Sorry, but "fuzzy-bean" is FOS on that. But we already knew that, after reading his goofy posts........

Four hours? Oh, puh-leeese..........

[lazlo]

1) I have the book from which the article comes......

So you read the part that I posted above about the motion of the cutter being random?

"the drill is allowed to wander in whatever direction the cutting forces dictate."

By the way, the book that article comes from is:

"THE COMPLETE MODERN BLACKSMITH" by Alexander G. Weygers.

Sorry, but "fuzzy-bean" is FOS on that. But we already knew that, after reading his goofy posts........

I disagree -- he didn't want to buy the $340 Watt floating tool holder, so he followed the directions in the "Complete Modern Blacksmith" exactly -- it was a clever build, and it should work nearly as well allowing the workpiece to randomly bounce around as it is to allow the toolbit to bounce around.

[J Tiers]

OK, the best picture of the hole I could easily get. Sorry for the fuzzy pic, it wanted to focus on the upper surface, and the depth of field was not the best. I might try again with a different f-stop if I get around to it.

Another fact.... this particular hole was 'pushed" to the point that the pilot hole is almost totally gone. At that point, the action of the tool is not so good, and it will eventually stop cutting, when the non-cutting center hits bottom.

Despite the above, you can see several features which totally contradict the "random bouncing" opinion..........

there is a regular 4 lobed feature right in the middle.

The tool marks clearly have a 4-way symmetry

Even the scratches indicating the tool path have a 4-way symmetry, and are consistently going in a regular 4-sided path.

So much for "fuzzy-bean".



edit: Picture deleted in favor of one posted below.

[lazlo]

Jerry, the cross in the center is intriguing -- what makes that? Is that the intersection of the three flutes bottoming-out in the hole? Could you post a picture of the end of the drill tip?

The actual tool cutting marks look completely random...

By the way, here's Harry Watt's 1917 patent. Unfortunately, it's very poorly written and very hard to figure out how he intended for the drill to work:

http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=US001241176&PageNum=2&IDKey=6B4CF8BBDC18&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526d=PALL%2526S1=1241176.PN.%2526OS=PN/1241176%2526RS=PN/1241176