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zero in vice on mill tabel

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  • Jim Luck
    replied
    Mr Mochinist --- Why did'ent I think of thaaaat!. Heck, I got the keys, just figuered it was to much work puttin em on. Then again, maybe I'll just do it my way -- can't teach an old dog new tricks ya no!, besides it impresses the beginner's!. Thanks for your insight anyway!!!

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  • mochinist
    replied
    Yes Jim Luck you are, you could save 1 1/2 minutes by using the keys. Hope their is no dings or worn spots in your table slots though. Guess you could use the keys and check it with an indicator but that would kinda blow the whole point of using the keys.

    Someone wrote if you need those kinda accuracy's you need to use a surface grinder, stay out of my shop then cuz you couldn't handle it.

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  • Jim Luck
    replied
    Damn, its never takes me more than two-three minutes without the keys. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG?

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  • Jim Luck
    replied
    Damn, its never takes me more than two-three minutes without the keys!!!!!!!!!!.

    [This message has been edited by Jim Luck (edited 03-07-2005).]

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  • spope14
    replied
    Yes, base indicating is too often forgotten. After posting this, I st up the class to do it today - pulled out the old shims and everything, and shimmed up the good ones to be out. Proved my point. The troops indicated the solid jaws as true as could be (I use .0001 indicators to indicate, got all within .0005 or better taking into effect some jaw warp in a couple - but we gound jaws two weeks back). had them cut to parallel an perpendicular - this to test their knowledge and skills in base indicating BUT also for an alterior motive to test my flexing solid jaws and a new procedure of clamping. They had done baes before very early this year, they showed they can get "lax" in procedure, but were reminded quickly.

    Got this point across, and the troops learned a valuable lesson.

    Glad this topic was posted, reminded me to teach this aspect again for re-inforcement.

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  • wierdscience
    replied
    Scott,I know what you mean about the bases,I don't think I have seen many that were flat or paralell.
    The Kurt and the clones at work I check end to end every year or so.I have on several occasions stripped both jaws off and surface ground them back flat along with the bases.Made a big difference.

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  • spope14
    replied
    Heck, I run vises with keys, and those without. My Kurts did not come with keys. Wish they did,and i would run all with keys.

    I have made my own jaws. Warning here. Soft jaws are great, but using them for common holding, be sure to avoid any chip clamping between work and he jaws, They can pick up the chip and repeatedly put the chip mark in a part. I know we are all careful but.....

    I have milled steps in soft jaws at times for special holding.

    NOW FOR A SECOND THING IN INDICATING!!!!!

    Many people forget the check the base for parallelness to the table/ spindle. I mean check the base where you put your parallels on to be sure the vise can hold parallel of a milled top to a bottom. Think Kurt is perfect, well, they are pretty darned good...BUT...bought a used Kurt for about $25.00.. Also a few "Import" vises as the schools just love "lowest bidder", and before I knew the tricks to specifications, got stuck with six of these. Three could not hold X axis parallel, and the Kurt was .002 out over the X axis, and .004 in the Y over 6 inches. Checked the the bottom parallelness, and found I had to shim all over the place on both X and Y. Bases were not burred or dinged. Once done, I engraved the shimming on the base at the shim points and have always held this base indication true - until I finally got the time to grind the tops and bottoms in right (which many of us do not have surface grinders to do, thus my warnings about the base parallel). This indicating is done from the spindle, not the table of the mill, for the spindle is the "cutting action", and a mill table and draging an indicator with a base on a table to indicate a vise has three points of error (base of indicator, table, and dragging movement of indicator over slots) where indicating from the spindle has one (dragging movement) if that.

    The basics of squaring have been covered quite well, just adding an additional idea here.

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  • hsmike
    replied
    Why don't you put the vise on with the keys, Then check with a indicator? Keeps everybody happy....

    Mike

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  • wierdscience
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mochinist:
    Don't worry weird, I make it a point not to work for a-holes that think they know everything.</font>
    So do I,all I am saying is the key slots are there for a reason,not for looks.

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  • mochinist
    replied
    Ok whatever use the keys I just said I don't like them. I can put on a vice in a small amount of time my way. My boss seems to be happy with my times, I got a raise last week and have bonused every six months for the past five years. Guess I will keep wasting my time.

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  • Dave Opincarne
    replied
    Hate to do it but I gotta side with the weird one. There's nothing in the use of keys to preclude checking the face with an indicator or to prevent the use of a swivel base. No one's holding a gun to your head but in a job shop where time is money spending time to dial in a vice when you don't have to doesn't make sense. If you're looking for greater accuracy than the keys can provide then you should be using a surface grinder not a mill.

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  • mochinist
    replied
    Don't worry weird, I make it a point not to work for a-holes that think they know everything.

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  • wierdscience
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mochinist:
    Stupid is assuming what works best for you is the best way for everyone else. Use the key if you want, I dont like them I prefer to see that the vice is square by indicating it. I bet I can put on a vise, indicate it, know that it is squarer than yours, and it would only take a min or two longer. I would hardly call that wasting time, more like part of the job.</font>
    There are methods that work without fail and those that work most of the time.
    Once the keys are fitted and milled true to the travel of the machine the vise jaw will indicate in to the accuracy of the chuck jaw period.There is no guess work and no chance of it slipping.

    Fitting and truing vise keys IS part of the job,if you want to cut corners that's fine with me,just don't do it on my dollar.

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  • cpm10v
    replied
    I too don't like the keys that come provided with some of the Kurt vises. Nice idea but I like to "know" that the vise is zeroed-out. The keys don't repeat well enough for me. Just as a rule of thumb going through apprenticeship I had always been told that before you start a job of material importance, always indicate the vise in, no question, and check it again after you've done heavy milling. To each his own, but I've found the keys don't give me enough piece of mind to rely on.
    Greg

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  • mochinist
    replied
    Stupid is assuming what works best for you is the best way for everyone else. Use the key if you want, I dont like them I prefer to see that the vice is square by indicating it. I bet I can put on a vise, indicate it, know that it is squarer than yours, and it would only take a min or two longer. I would hardly call that wasting time, more like part of the job.

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