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OT:Land mine removal?

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  • OT:Land mine removal?

    There currently is an ad running about mine removal programs sponsered by the UN.It isn't running here yet as it is very graphic.

    This is actually something I have been envolved with for the last few years,not removal,but studying burial.

    I have worked off and on with a customer studying the subject.It's more complex than you would think.

    Soil conditions are the nightmare for mechanical removal.Reason is,you can bury several mines in a given field randomly dispersed and leave the field unattended for several years,during that time some of the mines may stay in the same location,some may sink and some may weather out.This makes 100% eradication difficult.
    Worse yet are fields lain down on beaches or lakeshores,marine sediment and sand is very unpredicatable due to liquifaction.The mines can actually relocate,disappear and re-appear in other areas and strata.

    Methods used to detect and locate them vary in sucess and some are quite dangerous.Ground penatrating radar and metal detectors have limited results.Some mines are made completely from plastic and poly and newer ones have been rigged to detonate triggered by the detection process.

    We have nearly exhuasted all our ideas in detection methods and mechanical removal on a large scale is very expensive and many times impractical.

    The sad part is steel mines from WWII are still live 60+ years later,the plastics may be around for centuries.

    Any new Ideas?
    I just need one more tool,just one!

  • #2
    Trade sanctions against countries manufacturing them ? Cant see that working because that would include the US and UK. The sad part about mines is that the victims are often children and other non combatants.
    At least if they were biodegradable they would eventualy go away.

    Comment


    • #3
      Seems like a good job for infrared detection. If the "target" changes temperature at a different rate than the soil, it should be detectable.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree totally,sanctions will not work,the mines We and the UK produce are a cake walk to remove and we primarily use them for perimeter defense.
        The terrible part is the modern ant-personel mine,it is extremely cheap(Angola holds the record at $.12USD ea.)has one moving part,no electronics and can be easily modified to trigger on detection only by adding one part.Diabolicly simple,designed in hell.

        Last count there were 135 unique types of non-metallics,they are a regular cottage industry in some third world countries.

        The only answer is effective detection and erradication,simple robotics may be one answer,Right now many poor countries use people for removal,a field with 250,000 mines the odds of death are great.
        I just need one more tool,just one!

        Comment


        • #5
          Microwave the ground til they blow up.


          From a military point of view it is an easy and effective way to guard your flanks and rear. Or to channel enemy soldiers into your kill zone.


          "Only the dead have seen an end to war."

          [This message has been edited by Rustybolt (edited 03-07-2005).]

          Comment


          • #6
            How come the most intellagent specie on the earth cannot live in harmony. Why must we hate and destroy each other and everything else we get our hands on?. I believe the Bible has the answer, the mind of man is wicked beyond comprehension, who can know it!. At least believers will go on to a better place, which will be here, under our Lord's peacefull eternal reign, turning our weapons into plowshares and machine shop equipment! (my interpretation).

            Comment


            • #7
              Good idea,how do you redirect the microwaves so the unit isn't taken out on detonation?

              Did I mention they mix the types? Some are the size of 12ga shotshells,some the size of a big soup can and some are three feet round and hold 10lbs of plastic

              Truthfully,I was thinking the otherday,after all the pictures I have seen of the aftermath.If for some reason I were called to go to,oh say Iraq,the bullets,bombs and rockets don't scare me in the least,but the mines scare me.One retired Marine I was talking to called it the "LIFE LOTTERY" you never know when you will get lucky...unlucky that is.
              I just need one more tool,just one!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmm... Mechanical Ground Resonanace?

                Comment


                • #9
                  wierdscience what do you mean cake walk to remove???????


                  I believe mines do serve a purpose in times of war BUT they must be made to be 100% useless after say 1mth or so....

                  Even as bad as mines are cluster bombs... These insidious weapons are greatly loved by the armies of the world much to my disgust and i think most soldiers on the ground..

                  One thing is for sure unless my country is under threat of attack i certainly won't be going out fighting a war for the prosperity of another country...
                  Precision takes time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Use the not so secret death rays mounted on tanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Develop a cheap chain flail that can be mounted on a boom on the front of a Toyota pickup.
                      Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Use drug dealers handcuffed together in long lines , marched forward.
                        Rap music is optional but it will cover the sobbing and screams.

                        John S.
                        .

                        Sir John , Earl of Bligeport & Sudspumpwater. MBE [ Motor Bike Engineer ] Nottingham England.



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John,RAP "artists" followed by drug dealers

                          By cake walk I mean nearly all of the removal methods work.It's the little plastic bastiches that are hard.So far the only effective method is scraping up the dirt 18" deep,screening the dirt out and running the remaining mess through a popping furnace.Expensive and time consuming.

                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            John Stevenson- Drug dealers for minesweapers?-Unthinkable! SMART politicians thruout history have known--YOU DONT KILL YOUR BOOGEY MEN YOU EXPLOIT THEM !Here in the USA drug dealers are the FEED STOCK for our last great growth industry, The War On Drugs.This device has allowed over the last 35 years the creation of the modern Police State , with attendant erosion of civil rights, consolidation of power to the few ,and the ability to relieve the taxpayers of many,many 100s
                            billions dollars /yr.
                            We incarcerate and subjugate more per capita than any place on earth- perhaps any place, this side of the gates of hell. More than 50% are in for drug crimes,many of these are PETTY drug crimes.But so what ? Apparently that is what we want.
                            Hundreds of thousands of folks make damn good livings attending to this "war".Local, state and federal budgets for drug affairs keep expanding. Prison construction is a boon for construction people with mandated prevailing wage guidelines allowing decent wages for these folks for once. Average wages for prison guards in my state are in the $80000 range-- never mind the opportunitys for guards to sell marlboros to their "guests" for $5 per butt, now that smoking is outlawed in jail.The Drug Rehab industry is booming; with many ,many poorly trained practitioners reaping solid six figure incomes when you count the private and group sessions they oversee --Absolutely amazing for an industry with a near 0 success rate.
                            Tne DEA,FBI, BATF,Military ,State and Local Police, ,Judges ,ballifs,sheriffs,clerks and others all benefit financially from the existance of the drug trade. Oh !Dont forget about lawyers. Never forget about lawyers!Blow up drugdealers in minefields?If these folks were honest they would have a"Drug dealers day parade" to celebrate the source of their good fortune. The real money in drugs is THE WAR ON DRUGS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by wierdscience:
                              Good idea,how do you redirect the microwaves so the unit isn't taken out on detonation?

                              Did I mention they mix the types? Some are the size of 12ga shotshells,some the size of a big soup can and some are three feet round and hold 10lbs of plastic

                              Truthfully,I was thinking the otherday,after all the pictures I have seen of the aftermath.If for some reason I were called to go to,oh say Iraq,the bullets,bombs and rockets don't scare me in the least,but the mines scare me.One retired Marine I was talking to called it the "LIFE LOTTERY" you never know when you will get lucky...unlucky that is.
                              </font>
                              Use a radar like they have on fighter jets, but more powerful.

                              Comment

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