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  • mayfieldtm
    replied
    I want a car that runs on SEX!
    (or meatloaf).

    Tom M.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wirecutter
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J Tiers:
    The deal about electric being generated so what about pollution....

    Its a matter of where, and how much. First, the electric plant is FAR more efficient than any automobile.

    Second, the pollution from the auto is right there in your face, damaging you daily. The pollution from electric plants is less per power unit produced, although different in character, and it isn't blowing in your face direct from the next jerk's tailpipe. Big difference.
    </font>
    Touche' This is true, and this is probably the primary method by which electric cars can be more efficient. So yes, economies of scale apply not just to cost, but to environmental impact, for similar reasons. This is less true, however, for hydrogen cars, since it takes a lot of juice (or natural gas) to produce hydrogen.

    -M

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  • Evan
    replied
    "With alchahol and Bdiesel you run into the same technological and economic problems as with petroleum"

    Well, to some degree. You aren't going to need nearly as much to just heat the cabin of an electric car. Without cabin heat you simply don't have a useable product where I live. The cabin heater can be some sort of external combustion system. That is far cleaner than an IC engine such as found in a hybrid.

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  • Rustybolt
    replied
    Evan. With alchahol and Bdiesel you run into the same technological and economic problems as with petroleum. How much energy does it take to produce each as opposed to petroleum? What type of infrastructure is going to be needed to supply both on a greater scale? You just can't take an existing petroleum refinery and convert it to producing Bdiesel.

    There is a company here in the midwest somewhere that is using animal offal as it's feedstock and converting it into usable fuel for trucks and busses. They claim that their refinig process uses half the energy as a refinery would.

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  • 3 Phase Lightbulb
    Guest replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AZSORT:
    To answer the power/weight issue. Here is a new startup with an advanced motor. Of course it doesn't include battery weight, but that is changing too.</font>
    How can you "answer the power/weight issue" without the weight of the batteries? That's the whole argument! No batteries = 0 RPM, and 0 HP. Not very impressive!

    Some people clearly don't understand how an IC engine and an electric motor work.

    Take the TZero for instance... It's tuned for power/performance so it gets a whopping 200HP for around 100miles... This setup is a high-current/high-performance configuration.

    Take the Cobra's 427 for instance. It's highly tuned for ECONOMY and NOT performance. If this engine was tuned for performance, you
    would be running a low compression engine, with a super charger force feeding massive amounts of fuel and air significantly increasing the power/weight ratio. In this performance configuration, you're more in line with the Tzero at 100 miles per tank of fuel.

    It's funny how you never see a super high-current high-power AMP guzzling electric motor compared with the equivalent alcohol blown performance tuned 3000 HP++ IC engine. Why not? They both weight around the same.. They both consume their energy source at the same rate...

    It's always a high performance electric motor, compared with a non-high performance economy tuned IC engine.

    -Adrian

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  • AZSORT
    replied
    To answer the power/weight issue. Here is a new startup with an advanced motor. Of course it doesn't include battery weight, but that is changing too. The electric motor as tesla designed it has served us well for the last century, but these new complicated hi-tech motors will blow your doors off. (And not waste a bunch of power as noise) Get the rest of the story from evworld.

    Raser Technologies' Symetron(TM) is just such an electric motor. While it uses virtually the same materials found in the common DC or AC motor, how those components are arranged and controlled results in a motor that is dramatically more efficient and has a higher power density. The Symetron motor in the Formula Lightning race car the company modified develops an amazing 420 foot-pounds of torque.

    To give you a clearer sense of what that means. The new A35 V-8 engine in an Infiniti Pro-series Indy Car, which is about the same size as the Formula Lightning -- generates 385 foot-pounds a 8,000 rpm. That engine weighs 325 pounds. The Symetron weighs just 147 pounds (66.6 kg) and measures a mere 11 inches in diameter and is just 8.5 inches thick.

    What's the magic? I asked Higginson.

    "The eleven herbs and spices, if you will, are a combination of how the rotor and stator and windings are [arranged], as well as a control strategy that's different than standard control strategies that are out there today," he replied cryptically, adding that the companies they are licensing the technology to want to keep the technology a secret for obvious competitive reasons.

    The company is publicly traded over-the-counter under the symbol of RSTG and has a current market cap of nearly $1.4 billion dollars.

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  • Evan
    replied
    A pure electric or even fuel cell vehicle will definitely need an auxillary heater unit just like aircraft use in very cold climates. It could be fueled with alcohol or biodiesel which would be much more efficient than trying to capture waste heat since there isn't much to capture from electric systems. The amount of heating required at -30 or -40 is in the multi kilowatts. It isn't really optional except on very short drives, something we don't have a lot in rural Canada. My mailbox is a 4 km round trip from my house.

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
    The single biggest problem with an all electric vehicle isn't air conditioning, it is heating. There is no way that an electric vehicle will be able to provide cabin comfort at -40 no matter how good the batteries are. For that single reason electric and even fuel cells have no future in cold climates.</font>
    Fuel cells at least have the ability to gnereate heating power. Once you get them to operating temps.

    The very inefficiency of the gas motor helps in that special case. if it weren't so inefficient, it wouldn't have spare thrown-away heat to use for "non-essentials" like heating the cabin....

    I only lived in a -34 climate, not -40, but it was still plenty cold enough.

    I think you will be forced to burn extra fuel to get cabin heat to taste in the 8 months of heating season. Still may be well ahead of regular IC systems.

    The same separate heating can be done with electric, of course, and the heating requires relatively little fuel. Exhaust heat from the cabin can warm the batteries and get extra mileage out of them.

    There is some excess heat from fuel cell systems....usable to warm the cabin.

    And, of course, the amount of extra fuel used in a separate heater depends entirely on the users.....unlike the IC system where you are only diverting energy that would be lost in any case.




    [This message has been edited by J Tiers (edited 04-25-2005).]

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  • barts
    replied

    Back in grad school, I built a hydraulic/gas
    hybrid... the mechanical stuff worked well,
    but the computer controls needed more work.

    Today (20+ years later) we enjoy our new Prius
    hybrid, which gets actual 45 mpg all the
    time (city, 75 mph on the freeway, etc).


    With projections indicating $300+/bbl oil
    prices in 10 years, thinking about fuel
    efficiency is back in vogue.

    Since I live only a few miles from work,
    I think an electric motorcycle is in my
    future. Should be a fun project, and
    be just right for zipping around town.

    - Bart

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    The single biggest problem with an all electric vehicle isn't air conditioning, it is heating. There is no way that an electric vehicle will be able to provide cabin comfort at -40 no matter how good the batteries are. For that single reason electric and even fuel cells have no future in cold climates.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    The deal about electric being generated so what about pollution....

    Its a matter of where, and how much. First, the electric plant is FAR more efficient than any automobile.

    Second, the pollution from the auto is right there in your face, damaging you daily. The pollution from electric plants is less per power unit produced, although different in character, and it isn't blowing in your face direct from the next jerk's tailpipe. Big difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stanko
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Your Old Dog:

    BTW Evan, two things. When you get to the end of the web, will you tell me what's there? And, how did you cough up that website? I'm an inquireing mindless and would like to know

    Ray.......


    Ray try here http://home.att.net/~cecw/lastpage.htm


    [This message has been edited by Your Old Dog (edited 04-24-2005).]
    </font>

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Alciatore
    replied
    I hate to bring up details but there is more to a practical electric car than light weight, better motors, and better batteries. Most cars are used by families; wives, mothers in law, little old ladies from you know where, etc. etc. Until you can make one with all the extras like air conditioning, they just aren't going to sell.

    Perhaps what we need is a new approach to accomplishing everything that a modern car does.

    Paul A.

    Leave a comment:


  • JCHannum
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
    The Elise does exactly that. The electric is faster.</font>
    Since the base Elise has something like 146 HP vs 200 HP for the electric version, that information is hardly astounding.

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  • Evan
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Evan:
    Do you mind explaining how being faster is actually being slower?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I just did, but I'll elaborate.

    It's called the power to weight ratio.

    If you want to claim one engine has more power output than another, then you can mesaure that power output of each engine on a dynamometer. The dynamometer doesn't care how heavy batteries are, or how much fuel weighs.

    If you want to claim one engine is "faster" then another engine, then you need to run both engines in the same chassis and compare how each engine performs based on moving the chasis's weight along with the power plants own weight (Batteries + speed controller + transmission + engine(s)) vs (fuel + transmission + IC engine).

    -Adrian</font>
    The Elise does exactly that. The electric is faster.

    Leave a comment:

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