weld advice needed

[speedy]

I have almost finished machining the bullwheel shaft out of the Holden axle; to replace the damaged one off my Viceroy shaper. What it needs before I can progress further with the final machining is a spigot welded? on the end to locate the bullwheel. I have been told that the axle is EN ? and is in the order of 60 ton tensile.
My experience with welding is limited to some fabrication of mild steel. So, can anyone offer any advice as to what method/rod that I should use here.
I would value any input from the good members of this board with experience in these matters, thanks guys.
cheers, Ken

[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 07-22-2005).]

[wierdscience]

Well it soulds like a chrome moly steel,so the process I can recomend is a preheat of 450*F and welding with a low hydrogen rod.

Hope that helps.

[speedy]

Thanks Wierd.I have attempted to use low hydrogen rods previously with not much success . I definetly would need a load of practice .
The steel took its toll on the tool bits, peeled off some HOT blue metal until I got through the hardening ( and it was deep ). A local guy suggested I might try Eutectic 680 rods. Does anyone have any experience
of these??
cheers, Ken

[zl1byz]

Hi Ken!

Good to hear from you again. You seemed to vanish there for a while.

Anyway hope life is treating you ok. I'm fighting fit here.

Haven't been in the workshop much for a whole. Actually today was the first time spent for a fair while. Got a little job on the go for a freind, more fabrication than anything.

What wierd daid about the welding job should be good. I used to be into that special steel stuff in my Lees Power days but now I'm just a farm boy. I know a lot of people way over do the pre heat, it is mostly to slow the cooling process unless your into real tricky steels. Don't know about the Eutectic rods, they are probably dam ggo but the problem will be finding someone willing to sell you a hand fulll to do your job. Low hydrogen would be a good start, they are not that bad but you usually do need at least 70 volts open circuit on the welding machine to run them. That was one of the troubles with the old youngs welders they are great welders but only acheived 60v osv at best, but I have laid many a Low hydorogen rod with them sucessfully.

Good to see you back Ken! I have missed your kiwi sence of humour.

John.

[speedy]

How yar goin John! Good to hear your still kicking hard. I had been keeping an eye on the forum from time to time but I finally ran out of accomodating friends with computers
Yes, I took advantage of the Harvey Norman 20mth int. free deal and bought an Acer computer. I got sick of trying to comprend computa jingo and just jumpt in - sorry, text lingo creeping in
Seriously, what you say about open cicuit voltage probably explains my crap attempts at low hydrogen ( I`ll use the excuse anyway ) Eutectic rods can be had per rod at Pap. Engineering ( 3.2mm / $6.50 )
I`m using the shaft /flange part of the axle; the original was a two piece, piece of %#@. There is enough material at the flange end ( 5mm )to provide a shoulder to weld the stub onto, that will carry the bullwheel. I thought that I would chamfer this and drill a hole to spigot the chamfered stub to, then weld and machine to finished size.
The guy who told me of the Eutectic 680`s spoke of taking the chill off before welding and not allowing it to cool rapidly.
Keep in touch.
cheers, Ken

[This message has been edited by speedy (edited 07-22-2005).]

[.RC.]

If the spigot weld on the end does not need much strength and you are using a stick welder then get some Cigweld Satincraft 13's, they are very good easy welding rods for general mild steel work and cheap....Just don't forget to preheat the work like wierdscience says that will stop it from cracking....

I find low hydrogen rods only good for jobs needing a high strength weld....

[torker]

Sorry...I don't see the problem with using good ol' 7018 or maybe 8018 (low hydrogen of course)for this. I use it to weld almost everything and like machining it after (compared to S-6 mig)
Russ

[torker]

BTW..I see someone mentioned 11018 rod for this. Could be a better choice but it is harder to weld with. It's pretty runny stuff if you are going uphill. (Runs like SS rod) I also find it harder to machine.
Russ

[speedy]

Ringer, the spigot locates and carries the bullwheel. The bullwheel is secured to the flange by 3 cap screws. This job is not a biggie but I want to do it right.
I couldn`t recall the type of steel at the time of posting but I think it was EN36, I believe it is a BS system but more knowledgable members could perhaps clarify that.
Hey Russ, as I mentioned I haven`t had much success with low hydrogen
But this could be the Godsend for `welders` who can`t weldwell (me )
I have a sheet from Eutectics` NZ agents that tells me they can be used for;
"difficult to weld steels, including cast steels, heat treated, high-carbon, manganese, s/s, tool steels and steels of unknown composition, plus dissimilar jointing"
Sounds magic doesn`t it??
It goes on - " Xuper 680cgs is suitable for a wide range including tool and die repairs, rebuilding gear teeth, repairing cracks in machine castings, repairs on earthmoving, drilling equipment and rebuilding worn shafts. It is especially usefull for repairs where the base material is unknown"
"preheating is generally not needed" and it goes on to give some preheat ranges for different steels. "If used should be adapted to suit the base material and size of workpiece. Preheat to 150c for carbon equivalent to 35; up to 250 c for carbon 35 to 50. Do not pre heat austenitic-manganese steels; keep cool"
Sorry about the long winded reply but I thought it may be of assistance to other members of this forum ( all sizes )
cheers, Ken

[torker]

Alright Ken....you peaked my curiosity! Now I want to try some of that rod.

[Evan]

That rod appears to be basically the same alloy as 316 SS.

[speedy]

You could be right there Evan, as I remember being told years back " if you`re unsure then use s/s rod". I imagine that they are more than an everyday s/s rod or else we`re being stitched-up, price wise, by Eutectic
The bloke who runs the local fabrication and machine shop ( a good hot rod enthusiast )put me onto these rods. He uses these rods especially if they are unsure of the material of customers work and assured me that they never had a failure. I had a practice weld today and they strike real easy and run smooth. In fact it looks so good that I think that I can weld!
cheers, Ken

[bob308]

use the 70-18 dont use s.s. wire it is no good for strength or penitration unless used on s.s.

[.RC.]

Those Eutectic rods look pretty good...

from there website

"EutecTrode Xuper 680 S

Applications
Highly alloyed special manual electrode for joining a broad range of difficult-to-weld metals including special-, austenitic-manganese-, air-hardening and high-carbon steels, and for dissimilar joining. Applications include joining of cutting blades, forming-, forging and stamping tools, laminating rollers, gears, vibrating screen sieves, hydraulic systems and earthmoving equipment.

Technical data
Tensile strength Rm: 770-850 N/mm 2
Yield strength Rp 0.2: >640 N/mm 2
Hardness (as deposited): 240-280 HV30

Features and benefits
• Outstanding tensile strength
• Superb crack-resistance
• High deposition rate
• Unrivalled deposit characteristics; easily machinable
• Rapid slag removal, excellent bead appearance
• Ease of welding in all positions"

but 2.5mm rods would be better than the 3.2's if available...

[speedy]

I`m going with the Eutectic rods and I will be using 2.5mm which will probably give a better root run? I`ll let you all know how it turns out.
Thanks for all your advice so far, you`re a great help

cheers, Ken