Axle shaft build up?

[torker]

A guy brought me an axle from a full floater, wide 9 oval track car. He needed the middle of the shaft built up about .075 so the mid tube seal wouldn't leak. He wanted me to spray weld it but I refused (very pricey axle). I built it up with J-B weld and machined it down. It needs another coat and final turning/polishing. All this is for is the three lip seal so oil won't get slung out onto the brake on the passenger side as it turns. Do you think this will work? Thanks!
Russ

[zl1byz]

Hi Russ,

I think it was a good choice not to weld on the axle. I have no experience with J-B Weld, so can't comment on it. If you were concerned about it's wear properties you could always use a speedy sleeve for the seal to run on.

John.

[chief]

No, it will last awhile but it will wear away JB weld isn't for rolling contact areas,
I would look into a different type seal.

[fencepost]

What about a Speedi-Sleeve over the JB Weld?

[ahidley]

I'm not sure what a "speedy sleeve is. But I bet you could modify a sleeve that they make for harmonic balancers when the seal area wears down. Might be the same thing. All it is is a stainless sheetmetal tube with about .02 wall thickness. You put on red loctite and slide the sleeve over it and your done. It does make the "new" area alittle larger but worked fine for my V8 and it was on for 160,000 miles and still didnt leak!

[fencepost]

Speedi-Sleeve is a product of Chicago Rawhide. Bascially it is a thin stainless sleeve that can be driven over the worn shaft to reestablish the sealing surface. I have used them several times to "save the day" with good results. They allow you to use the standard seal which can be a big plus.

Please see:

http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/PDF/...lation_50A.pdf

For what it's worth.

Axel

[torker]

Hey guys! It's not quite that easy. A full floater axle has splines on both ends of the axle and uses a special seal that fits into the middle of the axle tube. The middle portion of the axle is turned down a lot smaller than the ends.
The seal is shoved up into the middle of the housing tube (about 18"). The manufacturer doesn't even provide a decent surface for the seal to ride on. A sleeve of any kind would have to be split...put over the axle and welded together, then turned down. I REALLY don't want to weld anywhere near this thing. They make them as light as they can to cut down on rotating mass so there isn't much there.
Russ

[torker]

Here's a link to their site. They also have a page that shows the seal
http://www.1speedway.com/Axles.htm#aal

[fencepost]

Geez, I thought we had a good solution, then the design goes and messes everything up.

This being a "thin wall" is there an issue with the groove being there causing a stress concentration that could lead to failure (no idea about the loads the shaft is seeing, just throwing some random thoughts out onto the table)? I concur with not welding.

Any chance the owner turn right instead of left (sorry, the coffee pot went south this morning - it's gonna be a bbbbaaaddd day).

I'm out of ideas and don't have any coffee. I don't even feel like going flying - someone shoot me - please.

Axel

[JRouche]

The JB might work for a little bit but being an epoxy it is rather stiff. I think most axles have a fair amount of twist to them (keeps them from breakin) and it may crack then chew up the seal.

Make sure to "polish" the surface as best as possible to prevent abrasion of the seal.

And, I'm sure you made the area spotless prior to gluein her up. I like MEK or acetone for the final solvent.

Then again, I have some biker buddies who have had a glob of JB weld on their bike engine for years. JRouche

[torker]

Axel hit the nail on the head. It's a very poor design. You have to really force the shaft through the seal and I'm sure the splines damage the seal right from the start. I only need to build the shaft up about 75 thou total. Last night when I turned down the first coat, it seemed like the J-B will polish up fine. I'm thinking it is going to be too soft to last very long and am wondering if the oil will affect the epoxy. The only other way I can figure is to split a bushing down both sides then carefully tig the two halves together, then turn it down. Only thing...it's the middle of the shaft....a little bit too much heat is going to affect the temper of the shaft. He's running 400+ HP and using a three link with really sticky 10 wide slicks. That axle will be highly stressed I'm sure....lol! Other than the J-B weld...I'm out of ideas. The factory is basically ignoring him as far as a solution.
Russ

[WJHartson]

Russ, I know that you want to keep the weight down on the race car as much as possible. With the way the axle is made I think that I would try to make a stuffing box that would fit in the axle housing and have a "nut" that would screw into the stuffing box and squeze some chevron packing or square packing against the shaft to seal. This could be made out of aluminum so weight could be held to a minimum. There should be enough room in the axle tube so that the splines would clear. Does it have to seal 18" in from the end of the axle tube? This is a race car application so it doesn't have to last forever and can be changed after each race if needed.

Most of the oil is going to flow at the bottom of the axle tube and not along the shaft. Maybe you could make a piece that fits in the axle tube to act as a dam and force the oil to stay away from the outer end of the tube. Might even be able to make a bolt on collor for the axle that would act as a mechanical seal of sorts.

Wish I knew more about the actual sizes you are working with.

Hope this helps or give you some other ideas.

Joe

[Rustybolt]

The only other solution I can think of is to have the axels shipped without the seals installed and then wrap the splines with tape or something and then install the seals yourself.
I know CR makes some kinds of shaft seals with extra long lips to compensate for shaft irregularities.
CR has an excellent engineering department and they are often more helpful than their sales staff.
I know this isn't a machinig solution, but sometimes customers like us for our wellspring of other knowledge as well.;-)

[WJHartson]

Another idea, I have seen some large diameter heat shrink insulation tubing for the electronics industry. Maybe you could find some that would fit over the splines and with several layer build up the thickness to meet your needs. Probably wouldn't last a long time but maybe would make a couple of races. If it came apart probable wouldn't hurt the gears or bearings.

Joe

[Jesse168]

I would try building up the center of the shaft with whatever I could to get it close to the o d of the splines. Then you could heat up a sleeve and slide it over the splined area and let it shrink on the build up area. At work we are always heating up sleeves for shafts. They will expand as much as a 1/16 inch depending upon the diameter. When cool you can run the seal on the sleeved area.
Even if you end up with the o d smaller than the splined area you can slide seal over splines by using shim stock over the splined area to protect seal from being cut.

We always make a gauge to check to make sure the sleeve has expanded as much as we want before trying to put the sleeve on. Just take a small diameter rod (1/4 inch) and grind ends round and have the overall length about .020 longer than the max od you need to slide over then weld T handle on in the middle of the rod.