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Axle shaft build up?

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  • #16
    Could you silver solder the surface without ruining the heat treat? I have to think that Silver solder would wear a lot better. I'd think that even a low temp, soft solder would work better than JB weld.

    Brazing would be better than soldering, but I think you need to get that hotter than the silver solder... Don't know. Never tried brazing.


    • #17
      Another idea, but it seems perfectly viable to me. Make two half shells from short lengths of clean steel strapping material. JB weld over the axle first, then turn that down so the two shells can achieve the diameter you want when pressed over the JB weld, then more JB to glue the pieces in place. If you stretch tape around the pieces to hold them while the glue sets, the tape will form the excess JB to the diameter of the shell pieces, and the gaps will be filled. If the tape is wider than the shell pieces, no JB will be above the surface of the shells, so no machining of the shells would be needed after gluing, except to possibly machine away the excess at the ends of the fabrication. Leave a shoulder of JB in case the shells loosen, and this way they won't travel anywhere if the bond breaks. The seal will hold them from flying off. Of course, the seal should be riding near the center of the shells if possible.

      Note on making the shells- form them around something round such that they will still have to spring open slightly when fitted to the axle. Make each one more than 180 degrees, almost a full circle if you can, then cut off the excess with a cutoff disc. This way the shape of the remaining material will be a perfect half circle. With some care in the cutoff operation, the two shells will fit very nicely without much gap at all, and the JB will bridge that remaining gap.

      I don't know the thickness of the strapping, but I think it would be close to what you need. If it's thinner than half your total build-up requirement, it would work. If it's thicker, use some other sheet material, maybe thinner stainless, but don't leave any raised edges that would require machining away later.
      Maybe you would do some final polishing, but that's all. The shells themselves would be quick to make once you have found the right diameter rod to bend them around, and the right length to cut them to after the bending. If any more of this work would come your way, you might consider fabricating a small supply of these shells at one time.

      One last thing, if the final shape after fitting is not quite perfectly round, that would likely be ok since the seal will flex some small amount to fit. More important is for the surface finish to be smooth. Strapping is smooth enough as is, and probably some sheet materials will be also. If you wanted to get fancy, you could bore out a short section of heavy wall pipe to the diameter of the completed repair with the tape over it, then cut that into shells. These could be temporarily pressed over the assembly with their gaps at right angles to the gaps in the shell pieces, and so would help to maintain complete roundness of the glued repair.

      I see this repair working well as long as you DON'T machine the final surface. You will need to take care to remove flashing from the shells before gluing them in place, and to prevent distorting the curve of the shells while working on them.
      I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-


      • #18
        Hey guys! I just finished turning down and polishing the last coat of J-B weld. I'm not real happy with this "fix" but I see you all have been busy trying on your end
        Lot's of good ideas for sure.
        The splines are over .250 larger than the shaft size where the seal has to run. This "seal" is a "one size fit's all" (sort of). The problem is the irregularities of the axle tube ID it'self. This seal is not really meant to sit this far into the tube but that's where it fits tight according to the owner. I'm thinking a sleeve should have been made that the seal fits into first and then the thing pushed into the inside of the tube from the third member side. That would solve the problem of the seal being so far into the tube.
        Joe's idea for the squeeze box may fit in here. Move the seal to the inside where there is mose room and make an outside tensioner for the seal itself....perhaps.
        I thought of two half sleeves and just nick them with tig to hold them. I'm worried that I could have an arc strike under the shells that could cause a faiure. These arc strikes can show up in weird places when you have a weld X-rayed so I'd rather not risk it.
        The solder is a good idea....but how much heat is going to be a LITTLE too much? Where the solder has to go...the shaft only measures 1.193 and it is gundrilled to boot!
        J-B welding two halves of steel....another option but I'm a little worried about a delamination and the pieces ending up in his expensive Pro Gear setup. I think it'd just chew up the J-B but any steel pieces....hmmmm.
        The REAl fix here should be the factory leaving a nice machined surface for the seal to ride on and offering more seal sizes to fit the different ID's of the tubes. Geez....a couple of ounces of steel here wouldn't be the end of the world.....throw the tire valve caps away and even it out .
        If this J-B jury rig doesn't work, I'd really like to tear the rear diff apart myself and see what could be done to fix it. I'm still thinking of two seals to keep out the bulk of the oil and the other (outer) having some kind of outer tensioner to squeeze the seal tighter. I think the outer metal band for the seal would need to be slit to allow this. There is no reason that a small cylinder (that holds a screw mechanism and a strap similar to a heavy rad hose clamp) can't be welded to the outside of the housing. We'll see.
        Oh ya...Joe...the heat shrink...If I'd have heard about that before last night that's what we would have done. I may just try it next if (and when) this fails. Thanks again guys! Yer all a bunch of geniuses!
        I have tools I don't even know I own...


        • #19
          Here you go Russ,this works good for seal surface build ups-

          Make yourself a two piece plastic mold to form it to the shaft,and after it's cured use a toolpost grinder to finish it to size.

          Iv'e seen this crap run on the metal seal cage and not wear.

          Them stupid(and I mean stupid)seals are too small,look in the CR catalog and find one with the same OD and a bigger ID.
          I just need one more tool,just one!


          • #20
            Hi Again Russ,

            Well I'm confused, if the spline is bigger than the internal seal size. How do you get the seal over the spline?

            What fencepost said about the speedy sleeve over the J-B Weld was what I ment.

            Speedy sleeves are very thin, the ID can often be the original shaft size and you still use the standard seal.

            So as I said if you can't get a speedy sleeve onto your J-B Weld build up, then I don't see how you get a seal on there either.

            Maybe I missed something here?

            Hehe I read your posts some more and see the problem now.

            What is the ID OD of the seal you are using? Perhaps you can get a skinnier seal that the ID will fit ofer the spline without interference, then perhaps you could sleeve the seal surface. I think the spline will bugger the seal sliding it over it anyway.


            [This message has been edited by zl1byz (edited 07-21-2005).]


            • #21
              More good ideas guys! Thanks for the link to the Devcon weird. I forgot about their stuff. I used to use it to bed rifles with before I could get Accraglass up here.
              And you guys are also correct....poor design and it should use a larger ID seal.
              I have tools I don't even know I own...


              • #22
                I guess someone has to ask, but with only 400HP and 10 inch slicks why all this full floater stuff? Just about any V8 rearend will work, for example a Ford 9" or even an 8.8. I ran 10 inch slicks at around 600HP in a 3200 Mustang. I used and 8.8 with C-clip eliminators, a spool, 31 spline Strange S/S axles and a girdle. The only problem I had was I didn't put the reinforcing bars from the girdle out to the axle ends and the axle bent a bit. Of course I was trying to launch a heavy (for a racecar) car and using a pretty brutal clutch setup.

                Am I missing something here?

                -Christian D. Sokolowski


                • #23
                  Christian....OK...You take your 8.8 or 9" out on an oval track. Have a 3400 pound car T-Bone you in the rear axle at 80 mph and let me know how ya made out.
                  You'll be walking back to the pits.
                  The FF guy will drive back.
                  I have tools I don't even know I own...


                  • #24
                    yes you misssd something he is working on a dirt track car not a drag car.
                    now you have been hooked in to trying something that is not done the inner seal is put in to try to keep the rear grease from running up the right axle tube in the corners. if it is getting on his breaks the the end cap in not on right.


                    • #25
                      Yup,the dirt trackers here have lots of trouble with street rearends,one even smallish "lovetap" and the wheel flanges bend.
                      I just need one more tool,just one!


                      • #26
                        OK, now that makes sense and now I know what I was missing, thanks guys. (I missed the oval track part in the original post) Actually the situation you decribe is one of the reasons I really like FF rearends for trucks, I wish the smaller trucks had them as well. One of the reasons they run C-clip eliminators on dragcars over as certain performance level is that if an axle breaks on a C-clip setup it will slide right out of the housing. The Ford 9" was designed without C-clips and are sort of in between FF and C-clips.

                        Years ago my brother and I had a gocart with a solid rear axle driving both wheels, we had a 12HP Kohler on it and it would constantly either shear the wheel pins or break. Our solution was to make the axle non rotating and use bearing centered wheel flanges with gear attachments. While a lot of gocarts are built this way they usually only drive one wheel which is bad for the muddy terrain we played in. We put in a jack shaft with a centrifical clutch on each end for each wheel and drove the shaft with a gear in the center and chain up to the motor. It was sort of a poorman's posi and never broke on us. It also kept us from tearing up so many centrifical clutches since the largest we could find where for 8HP motors and now we where spreading the load across two of them.

                        -Christian D. Sokolowski


                        • #27
                          Full floater truck axles seal the hub on the axle housing spindle. The wheel bearings run in gear oil.
                          THAT OLD GANG 'O MINE