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What Glue should I use in Vitrified CBN Grinding-wheels?

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  • What Glue should I use in Vitrified CBN Grinding-wheels?

    My Brothers,

    I have a big problem have to solve. I do not know whether there is anybody who use Vitrified CBN Grinding-wheels. I think the abrasive-field and basement is combined by GLUE.
    Vitrifield CBN Wheels are solid and have a very rapid speed, so I think the GLUE should be very strong, could anybody give me some hints about this kind of GLUE?

    I am very appreciate for that!!!
    Vain,Vain,I really feel my decay;
    Seeing the world left behind;
    Hiding in the crowd,
    Without any item.

  • #2
    Would you buy a grinding wheel from this man?

    Seriously, apparently his company is unable to reverse engineer the methods and materials used to form a vitreous grinding wheel. Scary huh?

    Think about that the next time you turn on your HF grinder.
    Jim H.

    Comment


    • #3
      wtf JC, I thought he was your brother?

      .

      Comment


      • #4
        Please note his location. P.R.C.

        A little bit of knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. I would recommend that this question be left unanswered.


        Mr. Koloya,

        A rotating grinding wheel has a lot of energy stored inside it. If one should come apart at speed, the results could be deadly. NO EXAGERATION, DEADLY. If you are going to make a wheel for your own use, I would strongly suggest that you purchase a lot of protection for your whole body and face/eyes (better yet, just buy a proper wheel). If you are going to produce them for sale, please mark them "REJECTS, DO NOT ONE RPM" and put a skull and cross bone emblem on them so everyone can know that they are risking their lives if they do use them.

        If you still intend to produce them, please, PLEASE hire a knowledgable, experienced engineer from that industry to do the designs and set up the production line. And set up a QC program. PLEASE!

        Paul A.
        Paul A.
        SE Texas

        Make it fit.
        You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

        Comment


        • #5
          Paul, that is my point. Koloya has posted here previously.

          According to his posts and profile, he is in marketing for a Chinese manufacturer of grinding wheels.

          If these people have such basic questions regarding the manufacture of wheels, one should question the safety and integrity of their product before use.

          Jim H.

          Comment


          • #6
            The company Koloya works for sells a line of CBN grinding wheels. It seems that he has been tasked with finding out more about the lastest CBN vitrified bond technology. He is misusing the word GLUE as these wheels are bonded in a high temperature process using a proprietary blend of glass and ceramic powders as the bonding agent. They last two to three times longer than standard bond CBN wheels.

            Lots of luck Koloya in finding out what the blend of bonding agents are. I don't think this is amenable to reverse engineering since once the bond is formed the chemical composition is different from what it started at. You'll have to develop this in house yourself.



            [This message has been edited by Evan (edited 08-22-2005).]
            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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            • #7
              As I recall, many went round and round with Kolya, but Thrud set many of us straight, and Kolya actually turned out to be a pretty good guy. Just my thoughts from history.

              The bond, well, I really do not know. many different mfgrs use different bonds, and even many same manufacturers use different bonding agents (glue) for different CBN applications. I guess the application comes first. Is the wheel a cup wheel, face wheel that may take some side pressures, or a side type tool grinding wheel.

              Grit size, depths of intended cuts, and even the idea of using the wheel for shaping (CNC Grinding whene the wheel may take many different forces fom side to face to angular) may also become a factor.

              Good luck. I have to say it that I do not think of the bonding agent so much as I order th wheels by tech spec to match my applications, materials, grades, thus relying on the sales person, and tech literature.
              CCBW, MAH

              Comment


              • #8
                Elmer's

                Comment


                • #9

                  I am appalled by the situation of a professional company using underhand methods to elicit information from members of this Forum.

                  There is a subtle line which contributors adopt to avoid what is a peculiarly pecuniary advantage from this friendly environment. Whether the import of this English translates into Mandarin or Chinese is problematical.

                  Again, there are forms of English and its interpretation.

                  If the message is still unclear, might I precis- that's French word- what has been said.

                  " You have passed tolerance and are simply abusing the system"

                  The great American humourist O.Henry once described intrusion of this nature and I quote his timeless words
                  " Tell him to F*** Off!"

                  Norman


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by NORMAN ATKINSON:

                    I am appalled by the situation of a professional company using underhand methods to elicit information from members of this Forum.

                    There is a subtle line which contributors adopt to avoid what is a peculiarly pecuniary advantage from this friendly environment. Whether the import of this English translates into Mandarin or Chinese is problematical.

                    Again, there are forms of English and its interpretation.

                    If the message is still unclear, might I precis- that's French word- what has been said.

                    " You have passed tolerance and are simply abusing the system"

                    The great American humourist O.Henry once described intrusion of this nature and I quote his timeless words
                    " Tell him to F*** Off!"

                    Norman

                    </font>

                    Now. Now. They have every intention of compensating the patent holder for this information.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Rustybolt,

                      And the band played

                      "Believe it if you can"

                      James M Barrie wrote in Peter Pan

                      "If you believe in fairies,
                      clap your hands"


                      Norman

                      As it was a North East of England firm that used to make the resins for abrasives'
                      might I add a little Latin?

                      Nil Illigitimi Carborundum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hmmm. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Reverse engineering is for the most part entirely legal and practiced by every company. Certainly asking for information isn't underhanded. It is very unlikely that Koloya will obtain anything useful though.

                        <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Reverse engineering has a long history as an accepted practice. What it means, broadly speaking, is the process of extracting know-how or knowledge from a human-made artifact. Lawyers and economists have endorsed reverse engineering as an appropriate way to obtain such information, even if the intention is to make a product that will draw customers away from the maker of the reverse-engineered product.</font>
                        http://www.yalelawjournal.org/archiv...act.asp?id=303
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                        • #13
                          <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
                          Hmmm. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black. Reverse engineering is for the most part entirely legal and practiced by every company. Certainly asking for information isn't underhanded. It is very unlikely that Koloya will obtain anything useful though.

                          http://www.yalelawjournal.org/archiv...act.asp?id=303
                          </font>
                          The fact that that abstract was authored by lawyers only serves to reinforce Norman's, and my, opinion that it is indeed a sneaky and underhanded practice.

                          [This message has been edited by JCHannum (edited 08-22-2005).]
                          Jim H.

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                          • #14
                            Still, it's a practice that all companies with an R&D department use.
                            Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                            • #15
                              <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
                              Still, it's a practice that all companies with an R&D department use.</font>
                              That is only partially true. Much R&D is directed toward finding out what the competition is doing, and then moving on from there, or to find if they are in violation of the R&D company's patents.

                              Since there are patent and copyright laws protecting intellectual property in effect, outright copying is not legal no matter how the information is obtained.

                              The Chinese do not respect these laws, and once the information is obtained, procede to manufacture blatant copies. Let them find out the hard way or pay for the information by buying licensing like everyone else does.

                              Jim H.

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