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  • #61
    WOW! I find my self going back in forth metric/inch. On the mill metric dosen't bother me much. Usually work with whole numbers. Lathe I prefer the inches, maybe the diameter/radius relationship? While wood working, construction I never work metric doesn't "feel/look" right. When I was little I remember a blind carpenter, he measured with a length of rope. Your row house was one rope wide, two rope deep, the front door was at one half rope, the two windows went at one fourth rope left/right, and no he didn't do roofs. He definetly did not think metric, or 16in centers, and his work still stands.

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    Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

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    • #62
      Dear Sir,

      Where do you find the negative diameter drill bits? I think an 8mm thread with a 1mm pitch is a standard. If so your formula would call for a -7mm hole.

      _____________________________________________
      Same applies for metric threads. I can't remember the last time I has to look at a metric tapping chart as the pitch minus the diameter is always the tapping size no matter what pitch, fine or course.

      Sir John.
      _____________________________________________

      Don't get bent out of shape guys, I fully appreciate the help that Sir John gives us and would love to be able to call him a good friend and acquaintance.

      North Central Arkansas

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      • #63
        I don't understand why so many people have a hard time with fractions. Fer cryin' out loud, they're farm measurements. What could be simpler?

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        • #64
          I use both, the science classes I took at college were all metric. The science sector of our country is well into using metric. Ofcourse if you tell me your weight in Kilograms I have no freaking idea how heavy you are unless I get out the calculator.

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          • #65
            Can I say this I genuinely believe it would be easier for a long term imperial user to get to grips with metric than the other way round.Alistair
            Please excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

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            • #66
              DDP

              [This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 01-03-2006).]
              I just need one more tool,just one!

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              • #67
                <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by phil burman:
                If your name is wierdscience then it probably arrives 25.4 times bigger than I expected.

                Phil

                </font>
                Personal attacks are a blazing example of ignorance,that's why I rarely use them

                I just need one more tool,just one!

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                • #68
                  <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Alistair Hosie:
                  .I think U.S.A has other issues which lose sales with old fashioned ideas. In Woodworking
                  you guys make good products just as I am impressed with most other things you make, I watch Norm Abram on satellite t v he uses a good saw a Delta but unlike Europe who have made a proper sliding table delta have no such thing he made an accessory with plywood which fits in his table slaw slot and uses that while we here mostly nowadays have proper bearing guided sliding tables. People here love the saw but they refuse to come into the 21st century with these tools also the make a spindle which carries a dado

                  [This message has been edited by Alistair Hosie (edited 01-03-2006).]
                  </font>
                  Alistair,we do in fact make sliding table panel saws,Delta even does,they just cost a lot more.The Saw Norm uses will set you back $1850-1900 USD for the model he uses.Step up a notch or two and you can get a 14" blade,sliding table and a few other goodies,but the price jumps to $3500 USD or better.
                  Many of the import Asian woodworking machines like the ones Grizzly sells are patterned after American designs,the're 14" Tablesaw is an example.Many of the parts will directly interchange with the Delta/Rockwell 14",even the bolts.

                  Also the average American woodworker has more floor space availible then most do in Europe and the UK,so many times we have seperate machines.In a cabinet shop you will see stand alone panel saws with 120"sliding tables as standard fare.

                  I just need one more tool,just one!

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                  • #69
                    "It has a lot to do with it. I have many good friends in Germany and asked them about this last year. A couple of them said they will never buy an American product until we convert to the metric system since they do not want to buy new tools or have to worry about finding an imperial screw.

                    I do believe our stubborness and arrogance is causing us to loose export sales as well as off shoring. Manufacturers must create metric designs of their products to sell to foreign countries, it is much easier to tool up in the foreign market then to retool here in America. Caterpillar is an example, they have a large presence in Germany, but they built a factory in Germany to support the European market. If we were metric, this production might have been done here."
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    Doesn't matter one bit,Caterpillar has plants there,just like BMW,Volvo,Mercedes,Honda and Nissan all have plants here.
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                    "One other point, there has been a number of people mentioning problems with metric fasteners, what is the deal? I have been working on metric machines for years and have never noticed any problems. What are these problems everyone talks about?"
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    First metric fasteners got a bad rap here simply because our first experience with them was on machines of inferior quality coming in from Europe.Piss poor steel combined with non-standard threads made life miserable to the people who bought them.
                    Second there is no standard for the metric fine series,only the coarse series.To the contrary the American unified thread has been adopted as a global standard since 1957 if I remember the year and has a set standard for both the UNC and UNF series as well as the newer UNEC and UNEF series.
                    Third in a practical sense,the coarse selection of metric thread are too fine a pitch for the indended materials and the fine pitch(es)have no defined global standard.
                    I have had plenty of trouble with metric machines.One Italian lathe has horrible castings,nowhere near American grey iron.I have repaired over 60 fasteners and several castings on that machine.Most times it;s a m 10x1.5 thread that's at fualt,they eiter loosen up and strip,or they gall and tear the threads.
                    ---------------------------------------------


                    "what has that got to do with it..So the US is big..."
                    ---------------------------------------------

                    Fact is most people have no idea the level of industrialization here compared to the rest of the world.


                    "dunno has it.....every other country in the world has gone through the process...why is the US any different?????"
                    ---------------------------------------------

                    The difference between the two systems in terms of ease is nill,imperial is not really difficult at all,unless you are an arrogant European(note I do not consider any of my brothers and sisters in the former British empire to be European,you guys are far to civilized )

                    "Too much of a stretch for some?? or just plain obstinant? I suppose if a person doesn`t want/need to know they shouldn`t have their arm twisted."
                    ---------------------------------------------
                    Geez John,here a gallon contains,four quarts,a quart contains two pints and so forth.Yes it's a little more complicated,but easy to remember,besides,if you don't use those brain cells they quit working don't they?
                    Which is better anyway,a liter of beer or a gallon of beer?

                    ---------------------------------------------

                    Finally I don't want anyone here thinking that I am "uncomfortable" or "ignorant" of the metric system,I am fluent in both imperial and metric.16 years in the business has made so.

                    I have worked side by side with metric born and raised workers from Europe and Asia,I found that 1 German and 1 Japanese were my equals and the rest I could run circles around in either system.

                    So far as the term"arrogance"coming from a European it is shear hypocricy,after all Europeans wrote the book on arrogance.

                    As for the argument that thre rest of the world has converted to metric I say so what?If your nieghbors all jumped off a cliff,would you?
                    I just need one more tool,just one!

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                    • #70
                      It's all reassuring when one knows a man who can do arithmetic- and can divide by two. This is the basis of the Imperial system of measurement.How arrogant people must be if others can move the decimal point to the left or right. How stupid when those who have learnt to divide by two have to learn how to move their decimal places in a similar fashion.

                      Just a thought, just a thought! The next thought was when American financiers couldn't do arithmetic- and jumped from every skyscraper in NY. Just a thought, Weirdscience- just a thought.
                      Or did you say something amazingly prophetic?

                      Isn't it interesting to be able to read American history and literature- in its original language. It needs a thought, it needs a thought!

                      Wasn't it the arrogance and affluence of Rome's Imperialism that led it to its decline and fall?
                      Just another thought.Weirdscience- you did read classical literature, didn't you?
                      Norm

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                      • #71
                        Norm, got a little carried away there, didn't you? I have to lean more to Weirdscience. And what about these crazy metric thread sizes, anyway? HA!

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                        Dave da Slave

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                        • #72
                          Dave,
                          Nobody is carrying me away- well, not yet!
                          I live in four countries- and when I say, live I mean with the deeds, titles, bank accounts and all the multifarious problems which arise.

                          Frankly, I am no different than my Spanish suppliers when I asked whether they wanted to deal in Imperial or Metric Measure.
                          They were not fussy- end of story.
                          They were not fussy whether I paid them in
                          GB pounds, euros, dollars, deutchmarks but called a halt in Brazillian Cruceros!

                          Oddly, my Spanish plumbing is imperial whilst my British is metric. My Scottish stuff is green( at Alistair's request) and my French is- well, arrogant French.

                          The summation is- rather interesting.
                          I haven't had to work for the last 20 years.
                          Just a thought- and an arrogant one?
                          What did you say about odd metric sizes?
                          As whosit said in Gone with the Wind- Frankly, my dear! I couldn't care a damn.

                          Norm

                          [This message has been edited by NORMAN ATKINSON (edited 01-04-2006).]

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                          • #73
                            Automatic Double Post feature disengaged.

                            [This message has been edited by sauer38h (edited 01-05-2006).]

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                            • #74
                              And what's with that "first angle projection" stuff those funny foreigners use? Bunch of weirdos. Unless you think everybody should do it the way the French say they should. Though that attitude proved unpopular after about 1815. (Correction - Russia, which Napoleon failed to overrun, kept traditional units until the Bolsheviks messed everything up - the Bolos went for the French system. Typical.)

                              The part of SI "metric" notation I hate is writing decimal points as commas. Sheer barbarism. If they're commas, they ain't "points".

                              [This message has been edited by sauer38h (edited 01-04-2006).]

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                              • #75
                                Norm, I love the English culture; such as the Beatles, the castles, the Haunted castles, the way of life; but I used to hold tolerances to 2 millionths of an inch for die polishing for a can plant years ago. We used a microscope with reticles graduated in inches, not metric; and do you know that ALL our machines were made in England, state of the art at that time in the mid 80's. You know you could always move to the States, Hell, I might even come over to see your shop! See, it would be so much simpler. I can always say "Damn, I forgot my calculator" You're a good man Charlie Brown!!!!

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                                Dave da Slave

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