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Way to go FORD {Do away with lots of American plants}

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  • Way to go FORD {Do away with lots of American plants}

    {Flier quote} On the surface, the 2005 Ford Five Hundred looks like just another conservatively styled family sedan. But peel away the Passat-like sheet metal and you will find a well engineered, highly competent chassis, much of it lifted from the Ford-owned Volvo S80.

    The Five Hundred and Freestyle are the first in a series of cars that will eventually replace the Ford Taurus sedan and wagon. Next year, Ford will introduce the 2006 Ford Fusion, a smaller Sedan that will be built on the "excellent Mazda6 platform"
    {end quote}

    Guess which plants are closing? Only American plants where it is hard to turn a profit. Meaning the employees are paid too much, too many benefits.

    This was Fore-told to My buddie Mike, He bought a Ford Five-hundred about three months or so back. HE is under the impression it is a all American car. SHEEP, BAHHH. BUY american..

    WHY Exactly should you buy a ford? Or chevy? Or CHrysler? Or any American car? They Don't give a rats ass about America.

    Excuse me, I farted.

  • #2
    It isn't just the USA.

    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
    If Ford takes an axe to its Canadian operations, the likely targets are the Essex Engine Plant in Windsor, Ont., with about 1,100 employees, and an assembly plant in St. Thomas, Ont., where 2,500 people work. Salaried job cuts that are expected as part of the announcement will also almost certainly affect Ford Motor Co. of Canada Ltd., which employs about 14,000 people at those two plants, other engine operations in Windsor and another assembly plant and head office operations in Oakville, Ont.
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    • #3
      Drudge report had a link to a news times(?) article interviewing Fords CEO about it. Ford is taking some very bold steps that will either make it a mockery or make it survive. Apparently the Ford ship is sinking fast.
      One of their plans is to make many, many more hybrids, more than anyone else, and go with more bold styling.


      • #4
        One more thing, 2008 will mark the first time an All chinese car manufacturer will enter the US market, promising the highest quality cars at the lowest prices. You didnt think it could get any worse?
        It is a sad state of affairs for our industry, this country is moving from industrial to a service industry.


        • #5
          Hasn't seemed to hurt there stock any, up $0.48 so far today Why is anyone complaining? It's only business, it's the old argument, why pay a worker here 60k a year when you can get it done elsewhere for a fraction of the cost? I'll bet most people here don't own american made lathes/mills, etc. Why? 'Cause they cost way too much money and while they may be a bit better in quality it doesn't justify the price difference. Even the quality issue is debatable. I feel sorry for the people that will be affected but they'll just need to pick up and move on.


          • #6
            Its sad really. These companies have been stagnate for some time. They keep riding on what they tell us we should want. Heated windshield wiper fluid and heated seats, not better fuel economy or lower purchase cost or even a longer warranty.

            I have an engineering buddy that worked with the Ford Truck division. They talked about fuel cells and alternative energy sources. But thats it. All talk, no work. So, they put alternative fuel sources on the back burner and told them to design the lightning. A V8 truck with a screw supercharger for the race fan. Dont know what they run, maybe $45k?

            Its all about getting more money from the consumer, not giving the consumer a good deal.

            So, then the employees get burned while the upper management get to keep their jobs. And I bet they dont take a salary cut. Greed, greed, greed. From the bottom to the top.

            Today, the news noted that in two years, China will release a car in America for $10,000. And it will have a 100K mile warranty on it. I cant buy a focus for that let alone a warranty that long.

            And when was the last car made that had all North American components. Hey, I like my Canadian brothers so I will include them too. They will suffer like us, and that sucks.

            In the end, it is our government that advocates this style of living. Its our people that refuse to take responsibility for what they do. Etc....

            So in the end, I keep fixing my cars, refuse to buy one new and take a $2000 to $5000 hit when I drive it off of the lot. And if I can make it, I will. Tried to buy a metric tap set the other day, cant find an American one. Settled on Irwin, but I dont think that they are made in the USA. We will see.

            Ok, sorry for the rant. Sick with the flu and fired up today.


            [This message has been edited by rockrat (edited 01-23-2006).]
            Civil engineers build targets, Mechanical engineers build weapons.


            • #7
              Don't forget the many US plants of foreign companys.In many cases the labor costs are lower than Japan or much of Europe.Some of the advantage is not having as many US white collar workers,that do cost alot more.


              • #8
                When I was young, I wanted an older(~65)Couger, then I thought with family I would get a Volvo wagon, then mid-life crisis into a Jag. But Ford messed with them all, so now I have Mercury Sable Wagon (fancy Ford Tarus).

                Had an F150 with the 300 six w/ manual trans, put about 300,000 miles, it was going to sit while I was away, so wife sold it.
                Now have a used '99 Dodge truck, Mexico found on many parts, hope to make 1,000,000 miles, on the diesel, don't know for sure, alot of parts are 98.5 -99 model year only.

                Edit: fixed the baby's keyboard slap typing
                Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

                [This message has been edited by TECHSHOP (edited 01-23-2006).]
                Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."


                • #9
                  Hey- China already sells a car here in the USA- its called a BUICK. Chinese made buicks are turning up in fleet sales- I know people who have gotten them as rental cars.
                  Not sure if they are selling them to the public yet or not.
                  Right now, Buick sells more cars in china than they do here.

                  But at least Ford admits they have a problem- GM is still in denial big time.
                  Ford announced on Friday they are firing 30,000 people- 25,000 hourly, and 5000 salaried, and closing at least 2 factories, as they are in "crisis mode".

                  There are no cars 100% made in america anymore- all of em have foreign parts, and many "american" cars are made in Mexico or Canada.
                  I bought a new F150 a couple of years ago, and it was Canadian- so its an import.

                  As far as the big 3 being owned by americans- thats a myth, too. Their stock is owned by people all over the world- the single biggest stockholder in Diamler Chrysler is a Saudi Prince, so basically, if you buy a Dodge Ram, the money goes to Arabia.

                  My Honda Element was made in Ohio, and my guess is the US made content of it is more than most Fords or Chevies.

                  My last truck, a Nissan, was mady in Tennesee, in 89.

                  Most Corolla's and Tacoma pickups are made in america, by UAW workers.

                  the whole thing is so incredibly mixed up, ownership, parts sourcing, factory location, etc, that the idea of Ford's being "american" and Hondas being "japanese" is a myth.
                  They are all global companies, and if you want to support american workers and jobs, the best you can do is buy a car made in a factory in the USA- which means a Subaru, or a Honda Civic, or a Toyota Tacoma, or Tundra, or a Mazda pickup, or a Mitsubishi Eclipse, or a BMW X5, or a Mercedes SUV, or a bunch of other "imports".
                  But if you buy an Escalade, or an F150, or many other fords, chevies, and dodges, you run a pretty good chance it is an import.


                  • #10
                    What does WAY TO GO mean and where did it come from only used in usa sorry I always wanted to know like taking a rain cheque now I understand that after many years wonderring ???please advise an old Scotty
                    Please excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease


                    • #11
                      "to a service based economy..."

                      well.. that says it all... Let's move all the folks from a Artisan - Skilled craftsmen making things... like cars to a "servant" job.

                      Service jobs are going overseas fast, too. Moping floors might not go.. But if the company with floors is offshore or does not exist - that job is gone, too.

                      Are you going to sell each other insurance? Sue each other for $$?


                      So GM does not spend the $1500 per car on Med support systems. WHo does? If the person still needs the support - where does the money come from? Do they just die?


                      If Ford or GM - then why not "my" company? who is safe from $0.43 an hour labor (no benefits/no "anything").


                      Why are we subdizing this whole import process? and we do.... !

                      -- Boy... I don't have to like this whole trend. There will be a collapse point.. don't know how or when. If there is bad economics, then I can be sure my family will be hit. Just our luck...

                      -- A going to give up and move next to Avory Lovins someday, I guess.



                      • #12
                        Alistair- In this context "way to go" means something like
                        "you screwed up again Ford".

                        However, "way to go" can also have a positive connotation- it can mean that you really did well, or that you really did poorly. It depends on the context.

                        America and Great Britain- two countries divided by a common language.

                        Lots of times when I read english magazines, especially those aimed at younger people, I have an equally hard time figuring out what the heck they are talking about- one of my favorites, which I am sure the Queen, or at least Young Harry, uses all the time-
                        "I snogged her, but I never shagged her".
                        Read that in Mixmag, an english magazine about techno music.

                        [This message has been edited by Ries (edited 01-23-2006).]


                        • #13
                          snog (slang)

                          snogged, snogging
                          1. To embrace, kiss and cuddle.
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                          • #14
                            Here is the basic root of the question, and one that really hits me hard and fast - and makes me a bit angry that it even has to be considered.

                            My daughter has been struggling to keep together a life that is barely above water as it is. She gets no public assistance, has a kid by a dumb (***) former husband who lies about child support and changes jobs faster than most people change underwear, which is either saying little about his job history, or praising people for changing underwear so often.... She is indeed making it, though not by much. She has been driving a 1994 Saturn for 5 years now, nursing it beyond 155,000 miles at this point, and has a 40 mile daily commute as it is. She has to pay child care, food, outrageous rents to live in a closet of an appartment. No money left to save, I do the car repairs and even supplement her life to keep her out of the total deep end. In one or two years from now, if not sooner, she will have to look for a car or real dependability. All said and done, her pay will increase by 7.5%, or cost of living, which means she may have some more disposable income, but not money flowing out the pockets to be sure.

                            I would be surprised if this situation does not come sooner than later, the car buring a quart of oil every other week.....

                            How do I tell her to drop 14K to 18K on a newer ford, or even 19 to 20K in a hybrid that gets 45 MPG... A loan that will go 5 years to 6 years no doubt, and probably run about 1/2 her rent or better. How do I tell her to do this when she can buy a new 100K warrantied KIA for about 8 to 10K that gets 38 MPG, or a potential China Car that gets about 36 to 38 MPG and also warrantied...with a four year loan that will be about 1/2 the cost of a six year loan for what will ammount to be the same car as the Hybrid or the new Am Car?

                            I bought Am all my life, or at least American Brand, and paid premium for my wife and I to say we drive such...... Damned proud of this as well to be sure!!!!!!! Now she has a limited life span in the workforce due to health, basically our income halved. My two "new" cars are now at 9 and 7 years old, so I face the same dilemma.

                            This is the question to answer. I have no good answer for this.

                            [This message has been edited by spope14 (edited 01-23-2006).]
                            CCBW, MAH


                            • #15

                              July 12, 2005 - 04:21
                              Bank on SUVs, Get Hammered by Gas Prices
                              By Jim Harris

                              U.S. automakers had been living by the gasguzzlers.

                              Now they will die by them, eaten by more eco-progressive competitors.

                              It’s been nothing but bad news recently for the oldstyle American automakers:

                              On March 30, U.S. investment bank Goldman Sachs warned oil could hit $105 a barrel in a “super-spike.â€‌

                              In April, Ford reported a 38 per cent fall in Q1 profits, and GM, the world’s largest automaker, lost US$1.1 billion in Q1, its worst performance in more than a decade.

                              In April, Ford warned that, becauseof slumping SUV and truck sales, the company had to slash its 2005 earnings forecast by 29 per cent.

                              On May 5, debt-rating agency Standard & Poor’s cut General Motors’ and Ford’s debt to junk status. Many investment funds are prohibited from owning junk bonds, and will have to sell billions of dollars of GM and Ford debt. Shares of both companies fell sharply.

                              By contrast Toyota’s future is bright:

                              It’s the world’s most valuable automaker.

                              In May, Toyota’s market cap was greater than that of GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen and PSG Peugeot Citroأ«n combined.

                              Toyota just reported its third consecutive year of record profits.

                              It’s the only automaker rated AAA by S&P.

                              The difference?
                              GM and Ford’s principal source of profits are gas-guzzling SUVs, revenue from which is down about 15 per cent year over year. And the biggest SUVs have been the biggest losers. In April 2005, GM’s fullsize Chevrolet Tahoe sales plummeted 34 per cent and the Suburban 30 per cent; Ford Explorer sales fell 15 per cent, and full-size Expeditions dropped 20 per cent.

                              GM and Ford’s North America sales have fallen by roughly five per cent in the past year while Toyota’s have risen by 20 per cent. Why? Simple: Ford and GM vehicles have the worst average fuel efficiency of any of the big six automakers, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.

                              End of cheap oil
                              Now add oil to this picture. Oil could spike to $105 a barrel because we have arrived at “peak oilâ€‌ — a point where world production reaches the maximum, plateaus and then declines. It’s not that we’re out of oil. According to experts, the world’s total supply of oil was 1,850 giga (billion) barrels at the start of 1900. Over the last century we’ve consumed half of it.

                              But globally we are reaching peak production. As the world demand for oil rises by two to three per cent and production remains constant, or worse yet falls, it will lead to a “super spike,â€‌ as Goldman Sachs has warned, and we’ll be thrown into another oil crisis.

                              The experts agree peak oil is inevitable, so the only debate is whether it is occurring now or will happen in 2010, and how high the price of oil will go.

                              Given this inevitability, the Detroit automakers’ reliance on gas guzzlers is short-sighted.

                              The best hope is for North American automakers to hybridize their vehicles — a hybrid SUV can have the same fuel efficiency as a small vehicle. But North American car makers are six years behind Toyota in hybrid development, so they’re now turning to the Japanese to license the technology.

                              Hybrids are the future
                              Sales of hybrids rose 81 per cent in North America in 2004. While this represents less than one per cent of the North American vehicle market it is the fastest growing segment, and 96 per cent are produced by Japanese car makers.

                              If consumer demand for hybrids continues on its current trajectory, and automakers integrate the technology in all product lines, hybrids could reach 20 per cent of new vehicle sales by 2010 and 80 per cent by 2015, according to a report by Booz Allen Hamilton.

                              The ultimate irony is that in May 2005 American auto executives blamed their corporate woes on the high healthcare and pension costs of workers, rather than taking responsibility for their completely failed strategy.

                              I have to believe that North American auto workers would be happier building hybrids, knowing they are reducing the rate of global climate change.
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