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12L14, uses, good for?

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  • bob308
    replied
    yes jters i guess we are real stupid we have been 12l14 for over 20 years and never had a blow up. now we are the same dumbasses that are winning matches with the barrels make on home made drilling reaming and rifling machines. alot of the barrels used in the n-ssa are made from 12l14 so i guess they are stupid too.

    know what you are talking about before you call some one stupid.

    Leave a comment:


  • nheng
    replied
    I'm not a big fan of 12L14 because during my first use of the stuff, I hit some "veins" or fine longitudinal voids a short distance below the surface and then again a bit deeper.

    If I were applying stress to any 12L14 parts, I think I'd use a pretty serious derating of it from its paper specs. Den

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    Good point Forrest,I forget that I have been welding for 16+ years sometimes and often take it for granted that others would bother to learn the processes involved.

    12L14 is weldable,however any welded parts made from it should be treated like any other part made from it and not subjected to high stress.(can't make chicken salad from chicken s--- after all)

    1144 is also weldable,but here again the same rule applies.

    Both use the same basic process,E7018 and a local preheat to 350-450f then a post weld draw down.

    In any process/material the best you can possibly do is produce a weld that is stronger than the base metal it is joined to,simple as that.If you have selected the wrong material,well back to the chicken salad rule again.

    The weldability of any material falls into the realm of common sense just as alloy selection and or part design.

    Bottom line,when in doubt make a sample and do a destructive test,that is the only way you can ever be sure.In todays world of Asian re-melt steel you can never really be sure even when you follow the books.

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  • motorworks
    replied
    Thanks Forest!!
    eddie

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  • Tinker2
    replied
    Buckshot

    Lyman Bullet moulds, I think are/were made of 12L14

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rustybolt:
    There was a picture in HSM years back of a 12L14 barrel that split.


    I believe that was leaded 4140, 41L40.
    </font>
    Maybe.... but not a ringing endorsement of leaded steels vs non-leaded for that sort of application.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkilroy
    replied
    For low stress parts 12L14 is great. Like you said, machines like hot butter leaving a fantastic surface finish. Always makes me feel like I know what I am doing. I keep a good supply of scrap and off-cuts of the stuff for the afore mentioned low stress parts. For firearm related parts I guess you could do things like scope rings, or bases, sights, decorative hardware, low stress action parts, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustybolt
    replied
    There was a picture in HSM years back of a 12L14 barrel that split.


    I believe that was leaded 4140, 41L40.

    Leave a comment:


  • Forrest Addy
    replied
    This is a long way from the original question but the subject came up and I can't resist raising a caution flag.

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by motorworks:
    [B]"You might want to try 1144 stressproof,it machines good,is weldable and responds well to case hardening."

    wierdscience
    I have welded c1144 in the past, but the metal supplier handbook says NOT TO WELD.
    {Russell Metals} [B][QUOTE]

    It's possible to weld something and come up with a weld with a prefectly presentable appearance but when the stress comes on the segregation, root cracking, embrittlement, whatever will let go and cause anything from annoyance to multiple fatalities.

    There's good reason why things are done the way they are, why there are so many restrictions and "thou shalt nots" in pressure vessels, piping, aircraft, aerospace, oil field and a jillion other applications for welded joints. That is the smart guys (the really smart ones who are highly experienced in the business, got the education, who have seen it all, and therefore write the specs) have set minimum standards for welding in these services and welders who do the work have to be certified for it.

    I know guys who declare themselves good backyard welders yet they weld over dirt grease and paint, weld high strength stuff with the wrong rod, declare preheating and other precautions a waste of time. When the boat trailer they weld falls apart revealing zero penetration scab welds somehow it's not their problem: "Cheap import steel".

    My point is you have to approach welding with the same attitude as any other trade. When machining threads they have to fit right and be concentric with the relevant features. Machanics have to work clean and assemble things in the correct order. Carpenters have to frame houses level square and plumb. Doctors have to observe aceptic procedure, prescribe appropiate medicines, and keep their skills sharp and up to date. Otherwise good craftsman who approach welding with a breezy sense of disengagement are the bane of the welding trade. On the other hand I've made a good deal of money over the years straightening out their messes.

    Getting down to it, my information shows that C1144 is weldable using the right procedure and filler metal so this point is moot. It is possible to make strong reliable welds in C1144 but you do have to use preheat and the right electrode. If the material is heat-treated there will be some loss of strength in the heat affected zone.

    Leaded steels are NOT reccommended for parts to be welded because of the weak and porous character of the fusion zone thanks to the lead content. That's not to say you can't weld something together of a leaded steel and not get good service from it; it's quite possible you can for work that sees no great strains on its welded connections for its service life.

    A point to consider: if the books say "do not weld" and you do anyway, you make yourself liable to tort action if anyone is hurt or suffers property damage attributable to failure of any welds you've made on the item in question.

    You're a craftman now; that means you bear a responsibility for the products of you hands.

    [This message has been edited by Forrest Addy (edited 01-30-2006).]

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    There was a picture in HSM years back of a 12L14 barrel that split. The writer was hit by a splinter from it, although by chance it hit something he was carrying and didn't injure him.

    Seems really stupid, to put it bluntly, to use a leaded free-machining steel like that as a firearm barrel, even for a muzzleloader, if you don't have to. Properties just aren't right.

    But, 12L14 is probably GONE. Won't be made anymore. It probably will not meet the RoHs standards for lead content, in which case it would be illegal in the EC. At least that is what we are being told.

    I thought the content was low enough, but that may not be the case, especially after the next round of tightening up of the content limits under the law.

    Leave a comment:


  • Buckshot
    replied
    .........I appreciate the time for the replies. I was wanting to make sure I was thinking right about what it was good for. I was surprised to hear that it would caseharden! So it's okay in applications where 'basic steel' would prove better then trying to get by with aluminum, or just non critical stuff where steel will work.

    Bob308, yes I had heard once that it was, but I knew nothing of 12L14 at the time. I understand that a rather famous shooter (Barry Darr) used Stressproof for some low power cartridge schuetzen barrels and got some grief over it.

    Rick

    Leave a comment:


  • motorworks
    replied
    "You might want to try 1144 stressproof,it machines good,is weldable and responds well to case hardening."

    wierdscience
    I have welded c1144 in the past, but the metal supplier handbook says NOT TO WELD.
    {Russell Metals}

    Your thoughts

    edie

    Leave a comment:


  • bob308
    replied
    we made muzzloading rifle barrels out of it.

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  • DR
    replied
    "If you're going to heat treat or weld or turn a thread, use 1018."

    Low carbon leaded steels carburize (heat treat) well, I believe the higher carbon types can be through heat treated. Turning threads is a breeze.

    Welding is the downside. Even there I've been told they can be welded by TIG if the weldor makes sure to allow the lead to bubble out of the weld pool. Personally, I've done some fantastic looking welds in 12L14, they break easily though.

    Leave a comment:


  • wierdscience
    replied
    It and some of it's variants are used to make hydraulic fittings also,they can be kept soft or case hardened depending on use.

    You might want to try 1144 stressproof,it machines good,is weldable and responds well to case hardening.

    Leave a comment:

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