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  • Fortal

    The guy that used to sell it on the web is out of business-mouser? somebody?
    Figures too. I was lookin' for some material.Damn.

  • #2
    That sucks. I got a really good deal from him on 7075.
    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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    • #3
      Isn't fortal just a brand name for a more common kind of aircraft aluminum? There are a bunch of sellers on eBay that have various kinds of Al stock.

      Darn, I kind of assumed that guy with the fortal would be around. That's too bad.

      Rusty - what size material do you need? I have some around - not much - and would probably be more interested in a cool trade than an outright sale. Got anything cool? Material? Tool or part? Email the address in my profile...

      -M
      The curse of having precise measuring tools is being able to actually see how imperfect everything is.

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      • #4
        Fortal is 7075-T651 aluminum made to the center of the spec.
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #5
          here is some on ebay under 7075

          http://business.search.ebay.com/7075...chiZQQsaprcloZ

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          • #6
            MOUSEBAR.COM I was hoping he was just on vacation over the holidays have some backed up but golly I love to work with that stuff.

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            • #7
              Yep. 7075 is beautiful material. Plates ring like a bell and it machines almost like brass without the problems. Stronger than mild steel at 1/3 the weight.
              Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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              • #8
                Mousebar Company Inc. will be ceasing operations on or before Dec 31, 2005

                Email contact may end shortly after Nov 30, 2005

                Direct any phone calls to 262-895-3005 until Nov 30, 2005

                Leave a message if you don't get an immediate answer.

                Fortal sales are also being suspended at Mousebar Company.

                Thanks for your business.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello,
                  FORTAL is a proprietary alloy used for metal dies. It's target market are die and moldmakers looking to substitute aluminum for steel dies.

                  I had someone inquire about substituting FORTAL on one of my miniature IC engine designs. Here is a cut-and-paste of part of the response:

                  =============================
                  I am not familiar with Fortal aluminum alloy, but have spent some time looking through the application manual for it (see http://www.supdie.com/products/fortal.html). Based on this look, I would be hesitant to use it. Fortal is a proprietary alloy designed for the die-making industry. It has a high Zinc content (10%), a low Endurance Limit (strength after a large number of cycles), and a low strength when heated above 400degrees (300-392 degrees for an extended period of time). It is unclear as to what state the pieces available at Mousebar.com are. (wrought or cast?) There are special requirements for tapping as well (ground taps only). Overall, I am not comfortable with substituting Fortal for 6061. (Mostly due to lack of experience with it.) If I were to choose a substitute, I would go with 2024 first, and 7075 second; however, the cost for these tends to be a bit high. 2024 stands up to high-temperature operation better than most aluminum alloys and is a good choice for pistons.
                  =======================================

                  FORTAL is NOT another name for 7075.

                  Hoping this helps,
                  Todd.

                  The complete FORTAL applications manual can be found at:
                  http://www.supdie.com/publications/pdf/fm-v3.pdf


                  ------------------
                  Todd Snouffer
                  Littlelocos Model Engineering

                  [This message has been edited by littlelocos (edited 01-01-2006).]
                  Todd Snouffer
                  Littlelocos Model Engineering
                  www.LittleLocos.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Fortal and 7075 are the exact same material and are made in the same way with the same properties. The limitations of Fortal are the limitations of 7075, and it most certainly does have limitations. Fortal is 7075-T651 temper aluminum alloy.

                    From www.matweb.com :

                    FORTAL

                    Component Wt. %
                    Al 90.07
                    Cr 0.23
                    Cu 1.6
                    Mg 2.5
                    Zn 5.6

                    7075
                    Component Wt. %
                    Al 87.1 - 91.4
                    Cr 0.18 - 0.28
                    Cu 1.2 - 2
                    Mg 2.1 - 2.9
                    Zn 5.1 - 6.1

                    As to wrought or cast, what the heck is that supposed to mean? All aluminum is cast and then further worked depending on end use and shape desired.

                    Fortal is a proprietary name that has been used to try and make it seem somehow "special". It's just like all the nonsense about "billet" aluminum.
                    Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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                    • #11
                      Yea, but where can I get some billet Fortal
                      Techno-Anarchist

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                      • #12
                        Hoffman, you can get billet Fortal on the other side of the river. But to get there you have to cross over the bridge.
                        But beware! Under the bridge lives a mean ol Troll. So you better send Billet Goat Gruff to get it for you.

                        I know, I know - that's corny as hell. But I couldn't help myself.
                        Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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                        • #13
                          Humm wonder what's up I checked with a seller that I had purchased from in the past. This is from the last listing he had.

                          LAST LISTING FOR THESE FORTAL ITEMS!, NO MORE AVAILABLE FROM SCIPARTS AFTER IT CLOSES!

                          Seems like all supplies have dried up... Odd
                          Wow... where did the time go. I could of swore I was only out there for an hour.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Evan,
                            Thank you for your input.

                            I checked MatWEB as you suggested and find that I was incorrect about the Zinc content of FORTAL.

                            Since FORTAL does not give us ANY temper information about their alloy, I looked up what T651 means in Machinery's Handbook (26ed). According to the MatWEB information on FORTAL, the material is "solution heat-treated, stabilized, artificially aged and stress relieved by stretching.

                            Complete information is available on 7075-T651.

                            T6 = solution heat-treated and then artificially aged: Applies to products that are not cold-worked after solution heat-tretment or in which the effect of cold work in flattening or straightening may not be recognized in applicable specifications.

                            The addition of the __51 is there to "indicate a variation in treatment that significantly alters the characteristics of the product." or in this case "stress relieved by stretching: Applies to products that are stress-relieved by stretching the following amounts after solution heat-treatment. Plate 1.5-3% (permanent set), Rod, Bar & Shapes (1-3%) and drawn tube (0.5-3%)

                            THEREFORE, if you go by the FORTAL published information we can ASSUME they have approximated a T651 classification for their alloy which appears to have the same GENERAL composition and properties as 7075-T651.

                            HOWEVER;

                            FORTAL lists no contents for impurities or other metals included in their alloy. 7075 lists specifications for Iron, Magnesium, Manganese, Silicon, Titanium as well as "Other".

                            FORTAL lists different properties for plates up to 3.5" and for 4 to 8". 7075 makes no delineation. (This may be an indication of the manufacturer's ability to treat the thicker sections.) Since FORTAL HR has a higher strength, etc. I will use it for comparison; however, for engineering calculations of any chunk of this material, I would use the lower strength since we usually don't know what this stuff looked like when it was "new".

                            7075 has a higher UTS and Yeild strength than FORTAL. It also stretches 10% further before breaking.

                            Other mechanical properties are roughly the same.

                            For my work, I would not specify FORTAL as a recommended material due to its limited availability and uncertain quality of the alloy (see impurities above) and uncertain quality of treatment, etc. For most home-shop work, it is probably ok; however, I will not advocate its use for my projects.

                            For your information, cast aluminum alloys retain their granular structure and look much the same as cast iron at the break. Wrought alloys (also referred to by today's buzz-word "Billet") are further rolled to change the properties of the metal to obtain a different structure. Wrought alloys are generally more ductile and will stretch or bend before breaking.

                            Hoping this helps to clear things up,
                            Todd.



                            ------------------
                            Todd Snouffer
                            Littlelocos Model Engineering
                            Todd Snouffer
                            Littlelocos Model Engineering
                            www.LittleLocos.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have made the stuff. There is no differance. If the alloy number says 7075 it is that. Any statements to the contrary are for marketing purposes only.

                              7075-T651 is available.

                              ------------------
                              Gene

                              [This message has been edited by topct (edited 01-01-2006).]

                              [This message has been edited by topct (edited 01-01-2006).]
                              Gene

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