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    In the early days most people who came here from non-english speaking countries tried to learn our language and customs so as to blend in.
    The exception being "Lawrence Welk" anda 1 anda 2 etc. also thank you Bobby and Chrissy.
    I think he actually was born here.

    Graeme

  • #2
    Welk was born here....North Dakota. I had the pleasure of drivin past his old place sometime last year. It's a fairly nice sized spread I thought.

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    • #3
      Why blend in and become part of the US? That implies obligation and responsibility. It's easier to just milk what you can, contribute as little as possible, and mail your funds back home to whatever Third World country you crawled out of.

      That way you get the best of both worlds -you get all the benefits of the USA and you can still sit back and confide in those close to you that whatever crap-hole your people are from is better.

      Mass communication, mass transportation, and weak borders have all but crippled our country.

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      • #4
        Is this about English or the sorry state of the US economy? Language is most certainly not to blame. Canada is officially bilingual and the reality is that in some areas the majority speak some language other than English. The city of Richmond has a majority of asians and the dominant language there is Mandarin. The Canadian economy is booming.

        As I said on the Lowes thread I will point out that "English" is a polyglot language. It is a combination of Friesian, French, German, Latin and a smattering of many other languages. Learning it is extremely difficult for many as it has nonsensical "rules" that have more exceptions than applications.

        Most native English speakers don't have a full command of the language, never mind those who must learn it as a second language.

        [This message has been edited by Evan (edited 03-08-2006).]
        Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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        • #5
          "Mass communication, mass transportation, and weak borders have all but crippled our country."

          Funny, that is precisely what led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Totalitarian governments have the most to fear from exactly those three things. A free country has nothing to fear from those freedoms.

          [This message has been edited by Evan (edited 03-08-2006).]
          Free software for calculating bolt circles and similar: Click Here

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          • #6
            A free country has nothing to fear except the tendency of ALL people to become "tribal".

            We need "us's" and "them's". It's how we work.

            Whatever strength the US has had, has been the ability to take in all sorts of "them's" and turn them all into "us's".

            There are exceptions, people who decide to go the other way and be "them's", Evan evidently being one such...

            But in general it has worked very well, given a stock of folks who really weren't that different to begin with... Europeans, in general, from places spread across from Eire to east europe. And, now including people from other continents and races, more-or-less successfully.

            What "diversity" does in effect is say that it's OK to live here but be a complete non-participant in the larger society. And, that IS how its set up, however non-helpful that may be.

            It is even perfectly acceptable to use all the benefits while actually actively HATING the larger society as you hate your deadly enemy. Hating its members, its customs, its premises, hating everything except the freedom to go on collecting money and hating....

            As soon as you allow (and I mean not legally, but socially) people to come here, but then to actively, agressively, and defiantly remain "them's" , you start to split up the society into tribes. That begets tribal warfare, open or covert.

            The premise of coming here is that you see this society as better than where you were. It makes little sense to come here and then hate us, working against us, and trying to re-mold it overnight into what you and your minority want, seeking to force the larger society to conform to YOUR standards.

            One would have to call such people enemies. They are "moles" from some ill-defined "other side", seeking to USE the freedoms here to EXTINGUISH the freedoms here.

            Read socio-legal philosophy, and you begin to understand what the implied social contract is...

            Over time society does change. Maybe not for the better.... matter of opinion. But it is slow, and rightly so.

            What dislocates societies is a large number of non-members coming in and demanding to be accorded the rights of the group, without recognizing the right of the group to exist as a group, and without conforming even nominally to the group standards.

            Like it or not, there are group standards. Most all immigrants have conformed at least nominally, perhaps more easily since they were in general from similar societies.

            With large numbers of folks from quite different societies coming in, seeking to impose sharia law or whatever, there is a problem which is best solved by the newcomers making a hard decision as to whether they want to stay and nominally conform, or leave again.

            Rights? Schmights! Your rights are dependent on your willingness to allow others the rights they allow you. That is how a society operates, whether that is encoded in a "constitution" or not.





            [This message has been edited by J Tiers (edited 03-08-2006).]
            1601

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

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            • #7
              I know these foreign phrases. Not sure how to spell them though.

              Hable Espanole
              Spreken Z Doitch
              Parle Vu France'

              I use them everytime I answer my door and a solicitor is there. They just think I'm some dumb foreigner and leave.

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              • #8
                Bet that wouldn't work with phone solicitors, Paul... More and more of them don't speak English with an accent I can understand, anyway. Charles

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                • #9
                  In the 200+ year history of our Republic we've taken in people from every country and ethnic group on the planet. And we've assimilated all of them into US society. They've given us their culture, and they've become part of ours.

                  This can only happen through communication. The great binding force of the US is English. Every person who has come to this country has tried to learn English. It's a difficult language, to be sure. But it's much more tolerant of errors in pronunciation, syntax, and grammar than many other languages. So those who wish to communiate in English can do so, though some will become more proficient than others.

                  This has worked until recently, when a vocal minority has invaded the US from the south, bringing with them only a taste for US Dollars and social services. They have no desire to be part of American society. Rather they choose to turn the US into a suburb of Mexico City or San Salvador or Tegucigalpa.

                  If they want to be part of the US and participate fully and legally in American culture, they're certainly welcome. If not, send 'em back home

                  ------------------
                  Leigh W3NLB

                  [This message has been edited by Leigh (edited 03-08-2006).]

                  [This message has been edited by Leigh (edited 03-08-2006).]
                  Leigh
                  The entire content of this post is copyright by, and is the sole property of, the author. No assignment
                  of title nor right of publication shall ensue from presentation of this material on any computer site.

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                  • #10
                    The problem with "Parlez vous Francais?", "Sprechen Sie Deutsch?" and similar is that the person on the other end may well answer in the affirmative. Then what do you do?

                    ------------------
                    Leigh W3NLB
                    Leigh
                    The entire content of this post is copyright by, and is the sole property of, the author. No assignment
                    of title nor right of publication shall ensue from presentation of this material on any computer site.

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                    • #11
                      Sorry state of the US economy? The US economy is doing just fine. Where do you get the idea it isn't?

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                      • #12
                        Bump
                        Did a dump non english speaking, spell this correct ?

                        m_kilde

                        ------------------
                        Mogens Kilde
                        www.wallenderengineering.com
                        Mogens Kilde
                        http://m_kilde.skysite.dk/

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                        • #13
                          <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J Tiers:
                          A free country has nothing to fear except the tendency of ALL people to become "tribal".

                          We need "us's" and "them's". It's how we work.
                          </font>

                          JT, for the most part i agree with what you say, but you touched on an interesting subject, the tribal nature of man.

                          I disagree the we need us and thems, it’s the root of a lot of evil and we're not adept at avoiding it. Certainly human nature drifts towards the us and them behavior. its a tribal legacy that makes groups of people so easily manipulated. Whether through political leaders or religious leaders, it’s the easiest lever of manipulation to pull. Look at Quebec, in the face of overwhelming information on what an economic disaster separation would bring, it’s the foremost political issue in the province because of leadership uttering… “we are a peopleâ€‌. What a perfect example of the manipulation possible through pride and the tribal nature of man!

                          As soon as feel yourself slipping into thinking about us and them, you begin to adopt 'group think' and forgo rational free choice and decision making. The pump is primed for manipulated – for someone to induce behavior out of that otherwise wouldn’t happen. from racial prejudices, fans of opposing teams needing to duke it out in the parking lot, to countries sending their young men across the globe to kill perfect strangers, inducing these behaviors requires a manipulation most of which comes from 'us an them' leverage.

                          I agree that the tribal nature of man runs deep but its mankind’s greatest challenge. Is a weakness easily exploited not a need. The great irony is when we think we’ve got it right, it’s only a problem of the �thems’!
                          in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                          • #14
                            I think our tendency toward tribalism is merely a manifestation of our deep-seated fear of the unknown. As long as our associates share our common cultural heritage, we feel comfortable. But bring in someone with a different background and we suddenly feel endangered.

                            The solution is to learn about other people and their cultures. But to do this requires a common language. So we're back to the English topic.

                            ------------------
                            Leigh W3NLB
                            Leigh
                            The entire content of this post is copyright by, and is the sole property of, the author. No assignment
                            of title nor right of publication shall ensue from presentation of this material on any computer site.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Evan, you sound like a 22 year old armchair intellectual. Regardless of what mass transportation, mass communication, and weak borders did for the USSR, in OUR CASE it is ruining our country. Chew on that a bit.

                              Quit making excuses for those who are too lazy to learn English. No one said they had to speak perfect English - but thinking they can get by only speaking Mexican doesn't hack it.

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