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1916 HARDINGE LATHE

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  • 1916 HARDINGE LATHE

    I recently acquired a 1916 9" Hardinge tool room lathe.It is in very good cond.,and I'd like to let the next owner ruin it.I'm a budding machinist/hobbiest,but I learn semi-fast and am good w/hands.What I need is information that pertains to this lathe ,ie; Illustrated Parts Catalog,use & care,adjustment.I was told by the previous owner that the headstock brgs are of a cone type config.and that they should be just about broken in.He also said that it has most of the precursors to the modern lathe ,as I'm learning.One of my concerns is that the brg closest to chuck gets moderately warm where as the other doesn't ,I understand this brg is closer to chuck and may be subject to more of a load.I lubed brgs prior to use w/same oil used on ways.Is it possible that this oils viscosity is too thick or is this normal? I have figured out what most of the knobs & levers are for ,but have questions on others,and setting up for threading should be interesting the first time!I basically need enough info on this lathe and machining in general to practice,learn,practice,learn...(or be dangerous!)Any advice,reference info,etc would be appreciated.

  • #2
    If the headstock casting contaning the bearing(s)does NOT get too warm for you to lay your hand comfortably on it after 10 minutes of high speed running it then its OK. Check it every 15 seconds to make sure it doesn't get too hot. Use a any good 10 wt. oil first [mineral base oil is fine but I like synthetic better.]

    Go online (Ebay) and find the sellers who make reprints of machine tool manuals and sell them on CD-ROM. Probably you will have to settle for an old Hardinge lathe manual dated close to yours. Call or go on line and contact Hardinge Bros. directly (Elmira, NY area)to ask for a manual. Who knows they might make you a copy for a nominal fee!
    As for learning how to actually run it get in touch w/your local Jr. college or high school adult education coodinator. If he or she doesn't have a class they just might know who had asked to teach one and they don't have enough people to make it a paying proposition yet.

    Remember, SAFETY FIRST. Never ever run one w/out wearing your safety galsses!!!! Welcome and good luck.
    Regards, Ken

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    • #3
      Bruno, I'm not sure weather you have the large floor mounted lathe or the precision bench lathe. In either case check out McMaster Carr's (on-line) selection of "SPINDLE OIL". Use the type for a max RPM of about 2500 which would be the limit of your machine. I would adjust the bearings until there is no runout and virtually no heat on either bearing at no load. Look up the web page for "The British Horological Insitute". Look up the article on adjusting bearings on a watchmakers lathe. This will be how to adjust the cone bearings on your lathe.

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      • #4
        BRUNO:
        Congrats on the fine lathe. You can order the operators manual from
        http://www.hardinge.com/ as well as any parts or accessories. I highly recommend that you get the manual and read it before attempting to use the lathe. Also, use of water diluted coolants will damage the lathe. Because of the quality of this machine I would highly suggest that you follow Hardinge's guidelines to the book. If you do not have the proper wrench for removing the chucks buy the proper Armstrong tool to prevent damage to the machine - a Punch is not a chuck removal tool! If it came with a collet closer DO NOT turn the machine on without a collet installed and a workpiece clamped in the collet.

        Hardinge is now offically the Bridgeport suppliers (new Knee Mill machines will be built in the US).

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        • #5
          Speaking of Hardinge lathes there is one in the Want Ad book here in New England for, are you ready??? $200.00 Dosen't run, ad says something about needing relays. Sounds like a simple fix to me.
          Same guy has three bench top cnc lathes none of which run but says one can make one one functional with parts from the others.
          Wants $3000 for the three.
          Paul G.

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          • #6
            Do NOT use way oil in the spindle bearings. It's too thick. You want "spindle oil," as noted by Joe H. Probably the lightweight variety. My South Bend 10K uses about #6 spindle oil. (The spec is 100 Saybolt, but that translates to about #6.) I imagine the Hardinge spec would be similar. But contact Hardinge and see what information they can give you.


            ----------
            Try to make a living, not a killing. -- Utah Phillips
            Don't believe everything you know. -- Bumper sticker
            Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. -- Will Rogers
            There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory. - Josh Billings
            Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
            Don't own anything you have to feed or paint. - Hood River Blackie

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            • #7
              Bruno: I suspect you are wondering ifthetemp differnece between the two bearings is significant. IF thats it, Don't worry. I do not know yor particular machine, but in any spindle set up, one bearing is intended to take the thrust, the other just holds the spinle in line with the other. If memory sereves me right some instruction books advise running unloaded for maybe 30 minutes to let the bearings heat and take up the load. Id say (I am not the safest man to take advice from) if you can HOLD your hand on the bearing after 30 miniutes or so, its safe.
              Comments invited, just don't attack me for things past. I am trying to reform!
              Steve

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              • #8
                Steve

                I hate to argue with some one as cut as you my friend, but the only way to determine bearing temperature is an infrared thermometer. Anything less is just guessing. And close only works in sex and nipple clamps.

                So there. I sure told you, eh. I only mention this because that is an aweful expensive bearing to be guessing and adjusting with wild abondon.

                Buit I have more respect for MY machines...

                Peace my brother

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                • #9
                  Thrud

                  Close only counts in Horseshoes and handgrenades.

                  Peace

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                  • #10
                    Tibertus:
                    Dang! Got 'em mixed up again. Sheesh!

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                    • #11
                      Dave, You are right i think in a way. I figure there are other ways than IR to measure temp. but purposes of discussion will conceed that IR will tell bearing temp.

                      Ok I buy the IR thermometer. To what temp do I adust the bearings? I've never set one up by temperature.

                      I,ve set em by drag, end play, side play and guess and by golly with a prayer.

                      I've removedthem by spectrum noise, viberation, binding, leaking oil, smell (over heating).

                      I,ve worried about them becasue of heat, but i have no numbers- just guessed. But some ran hot, some ran cold. Change was what worried me (and them real men who did the repair work- cause I was not really checking those things).

                      My rule of thumb is: (1)If a bearing lasts 10 days it will probaly go 10 months, then it will go 10 years. (2)Mostbearing failure is within firstyear and that mostly because it was ruined (made bad) during installation.(3) Sort your bearing usage by installer name and the bad bearings most have names like Jones, Stevens not NEC, New Dept.(4) a worry wart operator can always find a hot bearing, a squeaky one, too much or too little end play. A good one will find same thing. A maintenace man who finds a bad bearing after noon friday figures fishing is bad that week end, EVERY ONE needs over time some time- some will even work for it. Production supervisors and Planners and estimators can spot bad machines holding up production faster than the machines break down. They find the materials and/or operators while the maintenance people fix those faults Production and P&E find.

                      The customer or taxpayer funds those games.

                      Peace Bud. Buy you a steak in Vegas one of these days!!
                      Steve

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                      • #12
                        Steve
                        Anything over 200* is trouble with nearly any bearing. The hand method used so much in the can cost too much money now, so as good PM IR thermometers are used to diagose real problems before they become catastrophic failures. Gearboxes, conveyor lines - all easy to spot trouble with the "laser Guided" IR thermometers. The problem with relying on our noses is that by the time we can decern burned oil, the damage is done already. Amazing tools.

                        Hey, you ever been to the Platinum buffet in Ceasars Palace? Best one in vegas. They have a magic show/dinner theatre right beside it as well that is worth the $75/person admission - we had a hoot there.

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                        • #13
                          I have a Hardinge Cataract lathe from around 1910. I also have a Seneca Falls Star lathe from around 1896. As far as I know there are no manuals from this period. Check out the following web site for information on all sorts of lathes. www.lathes.co.uk

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                          • #14
                            yea dave, verily you speak truth. But when I capitiazed "HOLD" I meant holding hand near the bearing as long as you wish, which is less than 120 degrees F, probably more like 105. I wonder if a bearing with no preload, there fore running nice and cool, isn't more like to fail due to brinnelling than one a litle too tight?

                            I like Vegas and Reno, with Reno being more the town I enjoy. First time at Ceasears Palace (I think that was the name even back then) the featured show had Lili StCyr (Spelling?) a beautiful, classy sexy stripper. Never showed half what you could see for a tenth the cost in Tiajuna, and in TJ you could touch or even buy the gals out. But Lili StC, could tease a young man on a stage way away, and we were in "awe" (is that a fancy term for lust?

                            Gonna take me a trip, in Motor Home, spend time at quartzite Az, where there are no rules or lines to follow, just a bunch spread over many square miles free to do as they please, then every gambling town through Nevada to just watch the customers. and sooner or later continue on to Cagary and see the rodeo.

                            Last time in Vegas missed Ceasears, and much more. life is too short to move on a schedule. Trying to move as I please. Probelem is therest of the world wont let me. They (wife and Kids) think a man should sleep hours on end, then wake up stay awake. Me i need 4 to 6 hours sleep. With two hours i am wakeand ready to go again if I have some thing to do. Been like that all my life. At Vegas, a man can live like that and not be unusual.

                            Nuff day dreams
                            Steve
                            PS: keep your bearings cool, and maybe one day we share a meal in Vegas

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