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  • #16
    I have a set similar to your Menards link but I got mine from HD years ago. It does work for small silver soldering jobs. The flame is pretty small so you aren’t going to do anything big with it. The main issue I have with it is the gas and oxy control knobs are a little tricky to adjust to get a nice flame with the blue inner cone. You may have to fiddle with them during the job. But it does work and I have used it for a few years now. You could stick with propane/map and get a small oxy cylinder from the welding supply place if you do a lot with it (adding to cost and complexity). For small infrequent jobs as you state it’ll probably be alright.

    Bill
    Bill
    San Diego, CA

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    • #17
      From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas: "MAPP gas" is a trademarked name, belonging to The Linde Group, and previously belonging to the Dow Chemical Company, for a fuel gas based on a stabilized mixture of methylacetylene (propyne) and propadiene. The name comes from the original chemical composition, methylacetylene-propadiene propane. "MAPP gas" is also widely used as a generic name for UN 1060 stabilised methylacetylene-propadiene (unstabilised methylacetylene-propadiene is known as MAPD). MAPP gas is widely regarded as a safer and easier-to-use substitute for acetylene. In early 2008, true MAPP gas production ended in North America when production was discontinued at the only remaining plant in North America that still manufactured it. However, many current products labeled "MAPP" are, in fact, MAPP substitutes. These versions are composed almost entirely of propylene with minuscule impurities of propane (<0.5%).

      Note the common Bernzomatic stuff is now sold as "MAP-Pro" and is not the real, old-school MAPP gas.
      It's not appreciably hotter than oxy/propane.

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      • #18
        I have had a real oxygen acetylene torch since I was a teenager.
        My father had one before me.
        Working on cars in Buffalo with salt, you really need a torch.
        Now, even having many welders, I still use my torch for brazing cast iron,
        and pre-hearing things before I weld.
        If you work on stuff, you need a full size torch and bottles.
        Harris Calorific and Smith are good torches. Smith are chrome if you like
        that sort of thing.
        The problem with you home shop guys is that you never want to pony up
        to buy real tools, and inevitably you come over and want to borrow my tools.

        -Doozer
        DZER

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
          Have you tried MAPP with a "turbo" type torch? From your descriptions it sounds like that may be all you need. No oxygen needed.
          I have in the past, my current propane torch is actually one of the higher range Benzomatic torches meant to run off MAPP and propane. I used it with MAPP for a while, and honestly didnt notice much of a difference. Yeah, the MAPP did seem to burn a little hotter, but in my opinion not enough to justify the cost

          And yes, i know that im saying that while talking about buying an oxy/mapp torch, which will drive the cost higher, but im thinking the extra heat will balance things out

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          • #20
            Originally posted by wschoenbeck View Post
            I have a set similar to your Menards link but I got mine from HD years ago. It does work for small silver soldering jobs. The flame is pretty small so you aren’t going to do anything big with it. The main issue I have with it is the gas and oxy control knobs are a little tricky to adjust to get a nice flame with the blue inner cone. You may have to fiddle with them during the job. But it does work and I have used it for a few years now. You could stick with propane/map and get a small oxy cylinder from the welding supply place if you do a lot with it (adding to cost and complexity). For small infrequent jobs as you state it’ll probably be alright.

            Bill
            Aye, possibly getting a larger cylinder down the line was something i was already looking into, i figured the fittings to do so existed somewhere. Wanted some first-hand experience with the smaller torches, and thankfully you and a few others have provided that. Seems like the consensus is that they work okay for small parts, at the expense of short run time and slightly finicky adjustments. Seems like most of the negatives are comparing it directly to an oxy/acetylene rig, which is again, not happening for my shop anytime soon unless a set falls into my lap. Just too much up-front cost, and used isnt really an option. I live in a tool desert

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Doozer View Post
              I have had a real oxygen acetylene torch since I was a teenager.
              My father had one before me.
              Working on cars in Buffalo with salt, you really need a torch.
              Now, even having many welders, I still use my torch for brazing cast iron,
              and pre-hearing things before I weld.
              If you work on stuff, you need a full size torch and bottles.
              Harris Calorific and Smith are good torches. Smith are chrome if you like
              that sort of thing.
              The problem with you home shop guys is that you never want to pony up
              to buy real tools, and inevitably you come over and want to borrow my tools.

              -Doozer
              Ah yes, the problem with home shop guys, on the home shop machinist forum. Clearly the wrong place to talk about home shop equiptment.

              I dont braze cast iron. I dont work on car frames that have been living around salted roads all their life. I dont gas weld. I dont gas cut. I dont even need to do any of that stuff. I dont work on cast iron repairs, nor do i have any intent to, im not a mechanic, i have a wire welder and an angle grinder. For the stuff i do, no, i do not need a full size torch and bottles.

              The problem with you professional guys is you dont realize that not everybody needs or even wants the best of the best of the best, and sometimes those "fake" tools check off every requirement for a smaller shop

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              • #22
                I have both a small torch set as you are looking at an also a full size Oxy/set from when I still had my auto shop. My suggestion to you is the small torches really arn't that great but they do work. If it were me keep an eye on Crags or something like it in your aera and someone may be selling one of the really small setups at a resonable price. They are as good as the larger setups but tanks are like a third the sixe.
                John From Slinger, Wisconsin

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                • #23
                  I know that you have stated that you have no intention to do any gas welding, although this is an excellent process that is much like tig in many ways.
                  However if the need or desire was ever desired later on remember that only an oxy/acetylene flame will produce the reducing gases required for the process. No other fuel gases can be used.
                  Just a point that I thought I should mention just so that you are aware of another one of the limitations of using another fuel gas with oxygen.
                  Better to have both eyes open before pulling the trigger.
                  Last edited by Willy; 11-20-2019, 07:16 PM.
                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Location: British Columbia

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                  • #24
                    Real MAPP hasn't been produced for several years now. If you look closely at the yellow cylinders sold today, it will say something like MAPP equivalent. But it's not the same.

                    One possibility not mentioned yet is to buy a proper oxy/fuel setup, used. I used to buy and sell those as a hobby because they are often (several times a year) sold very cheaply by people who don't know what they are and are afraid of them. Buy Victor, Harris, Smith or Airco, no Harbor Freight or Cutskill. And make sure the Victor stuff is old because back then it was made in America.
                    I have bought many complete sets including cylinders for $100 or so. Send the torch handle and regulators to be rebuilt, or rebuild them yourself. It's easy if you have a vise and a crescent wrench and a bead blaster and maybe a couple other things.

                    metalmagpie

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                    • #25
                      I have and use all of the heating equipment mentioned above and use it often. Had one of those
                      "Little Torches" at one time. It is really TINY but useful for jewelry work. I sold it soon.
                      For most of my silver brazing needs a propane "Turbo Torch" is the considerably better than
                      the ordinary Bernzomatic type. you will get close to the maximum potential of propane.
                      The next step up for heat is the Air Acetylene outfit with a B size cylinder of acetylene.
                      This will last a long time with occasional use.
                      Then comes the full Oxy-Acet outfit with the small Smith Torch outfit and smaller of the "owner"
                      bottles from a welding supply. Now you can do some really serious heating and steel cutting.
                      Acetylene has an extreme heating potential. Familiarize yourself with many brazing alloys and their uses.
                      The high silver alloys (45-56%) are the lowest temp in the range of 1200° so work well with brass assemblies.
                      "Silver Solder" is the traditional name of brazing (800 deg+) alloys. Now on the market is a tin silver alloy that the marketers call silver solder (450 deg) confusing everybody.
                      Great stuff but you won't find it on my steam locomotive.
                      RichD
                      Last edited by livesteam; 11-20-2019, 09:45 PM.
                      RichD, Canton, GA

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                      • #26
                        Ended up picking up that torch set from Menards. So far, so good, couple twists of the regulators and figuring out how to get a stable flame coming out and i was able to get some test parts plenty toasty. Got a couple pieces of scrap 3/16" mild up to a cherry red without any issue, so i doubt ill have any problems getting the silver soldering i need done. Should work for me just fine.

                        And seriously guys, i said pretty explicitly "oxy/acetylene isnt an option", how were half the responses still recommending that... Im aware of the advantages, and im also aware that the advantages are useless in my shop for my particular needs. Its like recommending a Ferrarri to a guy who needs commute to work a half mile away

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
                          Ended up picking up that torch set from Menards. So far, so good, couple twists of the regulators and figuring out how to get a stable flame coming out and i was able to get some test parts plenty toasty. Got a couple pieces of scrap 3/16" mild up to a cherry red without any issue, so i doubt ill have any problems getting the silver soldering i need done. Should work for me just fine.

                          And seriously guys, i said pretty explicitly "oxy/acetylene isnt an option", how were half the responses still recommending that... Im aware of the advantages, and im also aware that the advantages are useless in my shop for my particular needs. Its like recommending a Ferrarri to a guy who needs commute to work a half mile away
                          I believe those that suggested oxy/acetylene as an option only did so in order to make you aware of what might be possible future needs and that oxy/acteylene would be more likely to cover all the bases if you chose to get involved with it in more depth.
                          How many here have bought a small mill or lathe and later wished that they had waited a bit longer to make that initial purchase. Then later saved up to buy what they really wanted because they soon outgrew their initial purchase.

                          Nobody is trying to talk you into what you don't need, just trying to help you avoid a purchase that may limit your growth in the future. Most here have made the same mistakes in the past, they're just giving you some helpful advice so you don't make the same mistakes that we did.

                          When you ask for advice on a public forum take what you need without complaining of extra info that was offered in good faith and intent.
                          Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                          Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                          Location: British Columbia

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
                            Ive got some brazing/silver solder work (never could get an answer to the difference between the two) on an infill block plane build im doing, and im thinking it might be time to invest in a better heating system. Now, i dont do a lot of gas work in my shop, and everything ive done so far has been served just fine with the standard disposable propane cylinder torch. Ive been thinking about upgrading to an oxy/fuel setup, oxy/propane being my first choice. I dont do welding or cutting, the most heat i need would be silver soldering, so the added expense of acetylene is a non-started for me, just straight up not happening. Dont need it, dont want it.

                            Now, id like something that takes those disposable canisters you can pick up at your local home centers. Seriously, i use a torch about 5 minutes out of the year, even if im only getting 10 minutes out of one of those oxygen cylinders thats a 2 year supply. My first thought was one of those Smith Little Torches, but the price of one of those with the regulators is a bit out of my budget. I did find this knockoff on Amazon that doesnt look too bad:
                            https://www.amazon.com/Devardi-Glass...ustomerReviews

                            Looks like theres everything you need to get going there, but the price is still a bit high. Little further googling led me to this:
                            https://www.menards.com/main/tools/t...786808&ipos=14

                            Which looks like just the ticket for me. Anybody have any experience with the Mag-Torch brand? Im thinking about grabbing one of these tomorrow but figured id ask for experience for. If anybody has any other recommendations, provided they arent "get acetylene", id love to hear them. My only requirements are small size and smaller price, id like to be under $150 to get all up and running, and the disposable gas canisters work best for me. Seriously though, i have no interest in gas welding or cutting, they wouldnt add anything i need to my shop and i dont want the price or the storage hazard of acetylene. Im saying it again because i know someone will suggest it anyways

                            By your incredibly narrow list of acceptable parameters and your incredibly wide list of constraints
                            it appears to me that you have already made up your mind what you want and want you need.
                            That begs the question, why ask what you need here when you know what you want already?
                            It seems you just want to argue.

                            -D
                            DZER

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                              The problem with you home shop guys is that you never want to pony up
                              to buy real tools, and inevitably you come over and want to borrow my tools.

                              -Doozer
                              That's right. They are HOME SHOPS not commercial shops where equipment costs get passed onto the customer, we have to pony up all the money ourselves. Many can not afford the commercial grade tooling you like so we have to bite the bullet and use what we can afford. If we are lucky we can get the occasional better bit of tooling.
                              The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                              Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                              Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Doozer View Post


                                By your incredibly narrow list of acceptable parameters and your incredibly wide list of constraints
                                it appears to me that you have already made up your mind what you want and want you need.
                                That begs the question, why ask what you need here when you know what you want already?
                                It seems you just want to argue.

                                -D
                                Damnit! It never fails. Someone asks for an apple pie recipe and everyone jumps in with reasons why banana pudding or brownies or this-or-that is so much better.
                                He didn't ask what he needs; he asked one question: Anybody have any experience with the Mag-Torch brand?
                                Then said he'd like to hear other recommendations EXCEPT acetylene that fit his stated conditions (implied) .

                                Yes. He had already made up his mind about certain parameters and constraints - he said that at the outset.
                                It's not him being argumentative, it's you and others.
                                Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

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