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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bob Rifling Button View Post
    I am looking for information about how to make a
    9mm Barrel using a 6 flutes Rifling Button.
    Finished length would be about 4.5 inches [114.3mm] long.
    I have Bar-Stock (material) that is .625 OD by .312 ID [16mm OD. and 8mm ID].

    I would like to know what dimensions are needed to prepare for the process.
    Like what is the proper ID size (hole dimension) it should be
    before pressing a 6 flutes Rifling Button through the barrel.
    Any information will be helpful.
    I believe I would need to get something like 9x19 Luger 6/6 groove Rifling Button.

    The
    9mm finished Barrel Bore ID size: 0.3472" to 0.3484" [8.82mm to 8.85mm]
    What is the bore size before using a 9mm Rifling Button ?


    Any information will be appreciated.
    Thank you

    Jan 08, 2021_ An Amazon Seller - hammerbutton (Andrew) replied back to me saying,
    the needed inside drilled diameter before press-forming is 8.75mm (.3444").
    So that is about .0032" smaller then the finished 9mm bore size of 0.3472" to 0.3484".


    I still feel I need more tech info before making a purchase of a 9mm rifling button.
    Anyone with more tech info about using a 9mm rifling button is very appreciated !

    Click image for larger version  Name:	9mm 6 flutes Rifling Button_a.jpg Views:	0 Size:	88.4 KB ID:	1920788
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Bob Rifling Button; 01-21-2021, 07:34 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      There really are no particular wrong or right dimensions for the buttons involved in this method of metalworking. The exact dimensions depend on the type of alloy and the properties (heat or other treatment) it has. Some alloys readily creep around the button and have minimal "spring back", others resist at all cost and are very springy. So one shall end up with different bore dimensions using the same button in different metals. Under or overshoot are equally possible by just exchanging the barrel stock alloy. It is often guess work and a lot of trial and error to tune into the right tolerances.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by markx View Post
        There really are no particular wrong or right dimensions for the buttons involved in this method of metalworking. The exact dimensions depend on the type of alloy and the properties (heat or other treatment) it has. Some alloys readily creep around the button and have minimal "spring back", others resist at all cost and are very springy. So one shall end up with different bore dimensions using the same button in different metals. Under or overshoot are equally possible by just exchanging the barrel stock alloy. It is often guess work and a lot of trial and error to tune into the right tolerances.
        Hi markx,
        Thank you for your reply.
        Yes, what you are saying is true.
        I am not looking to make a high quality 9mm barrel at this point, but to make one that works well.
        As I am gathering tech info and process tech-info, so to be able to remove some of the guesswork of how-to to perform process successfully.
        If I am able to gathering enough tech-info to do the Rifling-Button process, I hope to document fully the process.
        Any 9mm rifling-button tech-info is very appreciated !
        Click image for larger version

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        • #19
          Why not just use cut rifling? ALL of the apparatus can be produced at home with odds and ends, no buttons required. If you build a sine bar rifling guide, you can also experiment with different twist rates and do progressive rifling to boot.

          Seems to me that button rifling is a production method, but not a simple, or easy method for the guy wanting to do a few barrels. Remember, cut rifling was done for centuries with wooden gear and carbon steel tooling
          I just need one more tool,just one!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by cijuanni View Post

            If you are going to attempt to do it right, you need a deep hole drilling set up for your lathe, super slow feed rate (probably 1/10 of what your lathe's slowest feed is), high pressure oil system to flush out the chips, recycling and filtering the oil, reamers to ream the bore to size and finish, a long stroke hydraulic PULL press to pull the button through the blank w/o stopping. No bottle jack pump, pump, pump because static friction is much higher than kinetic friction,,,,all to make a barrel that is going to be inferior to a low cost Green Mountain barrel.

            Home shop barrel making makes less than zero economic sense.


            There's a lot of things I do that don't make economic sense, but provide me with a hell of a lot of self satisfaction.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
              Why not just use cut rifling? ALL of the apparatus can be produced at home with odds and ends, no buttons required.
              If you build a sine bar rifling guide, you can also experiment with different twist rates and do progressive rifling to boot.
              Seems to me that button rifling is a production method, but not a simple,
              or easy method for the guy wanting to do a few barrels.
              Remember, cut rifling was done for centuries with wooden gear and carbon steel tooling
              Hi wierdscience,
              I like your encouragement ! 😀

              A friend tried to make a 9mm Barrel by ECM, and it did not work properly.
              I ordered a 9mm push Rifling-Button today and believe I will gain some understanding when I see (and measure it) what it is.
              Some people have used the 9mm Rifling-Button with little trouble, but have not documented the hole process to remove
              a lot of the guesswork for other to follow.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	Several Rifling Buttons_f.jpg Views:	0 Size:	83.6 KB ID:	1920918

              9mm Finished Barrel Bore Size: 0.3472" to 0.3484" [8.82mm to 8.85mm]

              Rifling Depth: (.3661") 0.3583" to 0.3700" (-.0078" to +.0039" {0.0117" total}) [9.30mm -.2mm +.1mm]
              Last edited by Bob Rifling Button; 01-09-2021, 08:52 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post
                There's a lot of things I do that don't make economic sense, but provide me with a hell of a lot of self satisfaction.
                Hi Corbettprime,
                Thank you for bringing this "Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co." to my attention, I will check it out.
                There listing is "out of stock" for all there 9mm barrels.
                I will call them Monday.
                $38.95 for a 9mm, 1:10 twist, 17" long, 1" diameter, 4140 steel, weighs 3.3 lbs.,
                Gunsmith Edition raw barrel blank, button rifled, stress relieved, air gauged.
                Ready to be turned, milled, and chambered for your custom gunsmith project.

                http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/9mm-bla...k-17-x-1-1-10/
                Last edited by Bob Rifling Button; 01-09-2021, 06:42 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bob Rifling Button View Post

                  Hi Corbettprime,
                  Thank you for bringing this "Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co." to my attention, I will check it out.
                  There listing is "out of stock" for all there 9mm barrels.
                  I will call them Monday.
                  $38.95 for a 9mm, 1:10 twist, 17" long, 1" diameter, 4140 steel, weighs 3.3 lbs.,
                  Gunsmith Edition raw barrel blank, button rifled, stress relieved, air gauged.
                  Ready to be turned, milled, and chambered for your custom gunsmith project.

                  http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/9mm-bla...k-17-x-1-1-10/
                  Sorry, can't take credit for this, that was post #9, by cijuanni. Do like Green Mountain though!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I have made cannon barrels with home made buttons. I found that driving the button with a center ( like on a lathe ) give it a guide and free rotation. Used a heavy bottle jack to drive the button. Each drive rod ( 6inches ) had centers to keep it lined up. Stopping and starting is not a great way to do it, but hey in your garage.. best effort. Doing rifling seems to be the pinicle of gun making. Used molly D for the lube.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                      Look up this guy on You Tube. He is a bit (a lot actually) off the deep end some/most of the time but he does show how he makes buttons and rifles barrels.

                      https://www.youtube.com/user/TheIdahoanShow
                      That is one depressing looking shop that guy had, what was the plywood section?? the morgue ?

                      His choice of the bolt for a test / demo barrel wasn't a good one. I guess he didn't think of hitting the hard and soft spots where the rolled threads are. It's no wonder he broke his tool.
                      The results were horrible. It would probably be more accurate if it were left as a smooth bore.

                      There are some better methods here https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...-pros-vs-cons/

                      There was a girl that started a thread maybe a couple years ago on the gun she made and how she rifled the barre. her work was outstanding.

                      JL.................



                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dr. Rob View Post
                        Surprisingly, yes-- i have made a rifling button. Some people versed in the black magic art of barrel making say it can't be done, but i did it anyway. It turned out rather well and showed some promise.
                        Really, the harder part is devising the apparatus to smoothly draw the button through the barrel blank. This is a whole 'nother project in itself.
                        And in a world where a whole bunch of varieties of rifled barrel blanks and barrel liners can be ordered online, i'm not sure why anyone would want to.

                        .
                        Not really............ It would be ease to make a set up to smoothly and continuously draw the button through the barrel using the same method I did to pull this broach through this pulley.

                        I used a piece of 3/8 " threaded rod coupled to the broach. On the opposite end I clamped a piece of angle to the table. the angle had a hole drilled through it so the rod could pass through it.
                        I just turned the nut with a wrench and it pulled the broach through effortlessly. I suppose you could rig some type of motor drive or use one of those fancy pneumatic box end wrenches to spin the nut faster.

                        I would never try to press of hammer anything through.

                        The pics are of my test set up. You could build the whole set up on a piece of channel if you don't have a table long enough.

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                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Image002.jpg Views:	0 Size:	243.6 KB ID:	1921068

                        JL.................

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post

                          There's a lot of things I do that don't make economic sense, but provide me with a hell of a lot of self satisfaction.
                          And that is OK by me.

                          I use my free time in the shop mostly to make things that otherwise would be unaffordable, can't justify the cost, can't find one locally (heavy or would need to inspect prior to purchase), better made/more serviceable or saves something from going to the landfill/scrapyard.

                          If a guy enjoys spending hours and $$$ with lots of learning and rejects to make gun barrels, whirly jigs or buttons for your bib overalls it is OK by me, but not how I would spend my shop time.

                          I have been to barrel makers shops, seen the process and $investment, it won't be easy making a equal or even close to it barrel on the cheap.

                          As a bonus, the steel typically 4140 barrel makers use is not the off the shelf 4140, it is specially alloyed to drill and ream easier and produce better finishes.
                          So where are you going to find that?
                          Last edited by cijuanni; 01-10-2021, 03:01 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Cij.......
                            I agree with that, but a machine shop is a play ground for machinist!! Just making a hole with a twist in it can be rewarding. I dont think serious target shooters do home shop rifling ? I had many of machinist said I was crazy to rifle a 25mm bore ( cannon ). Came out pretty well. I am with you with not wasting my time making simple tools for my shop. Dont need the practice after 48 years in the bizz. Do more mods and repairs as needed. Still fantastic to have small machines to do that. Heres the funny part... after 48 yrs, I still learn stuff on this forum, youtube and others.

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                            • #29
                              9mm Luger SAAMI 9x19 Parabellum Rifling-Button

                              Click image for larger version  Name:	9mm 6 flutes Rifling Button_b.jpg Views:	35 Size:	47.1 KB ID:	1921643

                              This is the best info I have so far for doing Press-Forming 9mm Rifling-Button
                              Before pressing the 9mm Rifling-Button, the rough ID hole size
                              needs be between .3445" and .3460" [8.75 to 8.79mm].
                              The minimum Outer-Diameter should be at least .984" [25mm]
                              These dimensions will be the most optimal for the 9mm Rifling-Button to work properly.
                              When Press-Forming it is best to do it in one smooth press and use Moly-Lithium grease.

                              9mm Finished Barrel Bore ID: 0.3472" to 0.3484" [8.82mm to 8.85mm]

                              Rifling: Luger 9mm Barrel / Rifling 6-Grooves, 1:10 twist (One 360-degree turn in 10 inches of barrel length.)
                              Last edited by Bob Rifling Button; 01-22-2021, 07:44 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Bob Rifling Button View Post

                                Hi Corbettprime,
                                Thank you for bringing this "Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co." to my attention, I will check it out.
                                There listing is "out of stock" for all there 9mm barrels.
                                I will call them Monday.
                                $38.95 for a 9mm, 1:10 twist, 17" long, 1" diameter, 4140 steel, weighs 3.3 lbs.,
                                Gunsmith Edition raw barrel blank, button rifled, stress relieved, air gauged.
                                Ready to be turned, milled, and chambered for your custom gunsmith project.

                                http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/9mm-bla...k-17-x-1-1-10/
                                Update:
                                I called Green Mountain Rifle Barrel Co
                                and they said they will call me when they have these 9mm raw barrel blanks in stock.
                                They were not able to give any date to when they may be back in stock.
                                So, hoping they will be able to come through with restocking.
                                Click image for larger version  Name:	9mm barrels _ bb.jpg Views:	0 Size:	93.4 KB ID:	1921697

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