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Kearney & Trecker Milwaukee Model K No 3 follow me home.(pics)

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  • #16
    I've seen a fair few large (like 25hp) VFDs sell of govdeals fairly cheap, usually packaged with some crap. The cheap ebay ones will probably get you up and running as well, but I agree a RPC would be the way to go. In rush current is of no significance as you set the ramp time slow.
    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post

      By the way, how are you doing for CAT 50 tooling? Is this your first machine with a CAT 50 taper? You're in the Saint Louis area, right? I may be passing through there in a couple of months and I might have a few minor things to donate to the cause. I love to see these old beasts being used!
      It came with two shafts, and I had one with a 3/4 opening. and Yes I would be proud to put them to work. Thank You

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      • #18
        NMTB taper.
        DZER

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
          NMTB taper.
          That's a good point. Outlawspeeder, ordinary CAT 50 tooling might need some minor tweaks to work in your machine. If this mill still has it's original length drawbar, you'll need to make some adapters or a new drawbar to use CAT 50 tooling. The CAT 50 tooling is designed for pull studs instead of a drawbar and their tails are shorter than NMTB 50 taper tools. Otherwise, the taper itself is identical.

          At the very least, I think I have a CAT50 to MT3 adapter with a Jacobs 14N mounted on it that I can part with. I'll take a look and see what else I might have lying around.

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          • #20
            I could do a chapter on War Production including a Plymouth locomotive that almost became my lawn ornament back in 72.

            War machines all had brass serial number tags when they left the builder assigning the agency they were built for. Women labored around the clock in DC tracking the machines in ledgers in ink and according to manuals any machine could be tracked to where it sat. Industry saw it differently, many of those machines became barter material. Oddly, within a week after VJ Day, largely to cut payroll most of those women were terminated from Government employment and only some of the ledgers were boxed up and retained. Most War machines ceased to exist on paper. I personally know of 70+ Mack dump trucks that became privately owned trucks on Christmas Eve in exchange for a pickup load of meat, and I stood beside the grave of the man who made it happen. I've also run a fine lathe with a brass tag that appeared in a yard under a tarp one night. Millions of tons of steel changed hands leaving no record. Mortgages on land and buildings used in War Production vaporized as production agencies were closed down and holders in possession became land and building owners. Boxcars, mostly wood, got paint jobs and renumbered often changing which RR owned them for convenience. Nobody was being paid to watch, and nobody was looking. Guard shacks were empty and gates weren't locked, and manufacturers whose names would shock you were getting their last bite of the pie.

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            • #21
              A few pointers-
              instead of “shafts” try horizontal milling arbor. Available in A or B styles. I forget which is which, but one style has an un-threaded reduced diameter end designed to run in the small hole arbor support. This support is only used at the end of such an arbor.

              It’s easy to set up a 1” longer drawbar with a draw nut to use cat 50 and nmtb interchangeably. One of the spindle drive keys will have to be thinned or removed for cat 50 arbors.

              clear as mud?

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              • #22
                In response to the question of bolting the machine down; That little one should definitely have 2 anchors on the side opposite the table. The machine won't have much propensity to walk, but you want the anchors for the moment something heavy enough to change center of mass is placed on the table. There won't be a sufficient time window to change that Oh S#!T situation.

                I favor anchors that can be driven down and thru the floor for moving convenience when that day comes. Everything moves eventually.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                  In response to the question of bolting the machine down; That little one should definitely have 2 anchors on the side opposite the table. The machine won't have much propensity to walk, but you want the anchors for the moment something heavy enough to change center of mass is placed on the table. There won't be a sufficient time window to change that Oh S#!T situation.

                  I favor anchors that can be driven down and thru the floor for moving convenience when that day comes. Everything moves eventually.
                  I mean, technically, you are correct. But, I have to ask, what the hell are you placing that is heavy enough to tip over a 7800lbs machine, sitting on the side of the table? I think you would have to worry about serious bending deflection at that point. Personally I wouldn't bother.
                  21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                  1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                    I mean, technically, you are correct. But, I have to ask, what the hell are you placing that is heavy enough to tip over a 7800lbs machine, sitting on the side of the table? I think you would have to worry about serious bending deflection at that point. Personally I wouldn't bother.
                    I'm not, but I been around long enough to know eventually somebody will.
                    I've come too close to wearing a #2 Cinci horizontal for a full body shirt already to believe such don't happen.

                    That machine might be 7800#, but how is that weight distributed? The base is hollow. The table is heavy by itself and I've spent sufficient time telling people to crank the table all the way down before any attempt to move such toys to know the law of Mother Earth sucking will generally be ignored. Making stupid moves didn't get me this old.

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                    • #25
                      As with all new ventures, I learn something new with every page I turn.

                      Power Options:
                      1. Phase-A-Matic

                      https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/phstp...EaAk3WEALw_wcB

                      2. 10Hp motor and kit

                      http://phaseconverterusa.com/10Hp-Ro...vac-_p_54.html

                      3. VFD
                      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-VFD15...wAAOSwH9JdthuX


                      1. Good; easy to use quick, $340 to $420 Bad 2/3 the power Notes, I don't think I'll ever need all the ponies

                      2 Good I can get a motor for a good price The kit is $110, Bad I've never built one, Can I do it without screwing up. Notes I learn something new and I get full power

                      3. Good Easy install Bad price $800 plus, most need 440 at 20hp Note Why does it have to be a 20hp for a 10hp motor?


                      I go back to work and school tomorrow so the shop goes on hold so I can pay the bills. Not sure what way to go right now but I like #2 but #1 is the sensible one. Before reading all this I thought the VFD was the way to go till I was told I needed to double the HP rating. My shop only has 220 and most of the VFDs I looked at need 440...


                      Bolting it down I'll skip that but may put mortar around the base. (easy to clean, & stops mice)

                      CAT50 goes to show how much I am learning. I thought that was CAT50. Below is a pic of the draw bar. Two threads? "Fasttrack" Thanks again. I am learning.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	20200120_205247.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	2.07 MB
ID:	1850253

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                      • #26
                        Yep I would take option 2. Wow I don't think I've ever seen tooling that big (she said)
                        25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                        • #27
                          I have overloaded a Bridgeport type with work hanging off the side or on part of table. I could have tipped it with my hand, had to counterweight other end of table. And it was a piece I loaded on the mill by hand..
                          I bet the #3 is rated at 4000 lbs plus, on the table , and not every job is centered.
                          Last edited by 754; 01-21-2020, 07:14 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by outlawspeeder View Post
                            As with all new ventures, I learn something new with every page I turn.

                            Power Options:
                            1. Phase-A-Matic

                            https://www.ajaxtoolsupply.com/phstp...EaAk3WEALw_wcB

                            2. 10Hp motor and kit

                            http://phaseconverterusa.com/10Hp-Ro...vac-_p_54.html

                            3. VFD
                            https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-VFD15...wAAOSwH9JdthuX


                            1. Good; easy to use quick, $340 to $420 Bad 2/3 the power Notes, I don't think I'll ever need all the ponies

                            2 Good I can get a motor for a good price The kit is $110, Bad I've never built one, Can I do it without screwing up. Notes I learn something new and I get full power

                            3. Good Easy install Bad price $800 plus, most need 440 at 20hp Note Why does it have to be a 20hp for a 10hp motor?


                            I go back to work and school tomorrow so the shop goes on hold so I can pay the bills. Not sure what way to go right now but I like #2 but #1 is the sensible one. Before reading all this I thought the VFD was the way to go till I was told I needed to double the HP rating. My shop only has 220 and most of the VFDs I looked at need 440...


                            Bolting it down I'll skip that but may put mortar around the base. (easy to clean, & stops mice)

                            CAT50 goes to show how much I am learning. I thought that was CAT50. Below is a pic of the draw bar. Two threads? "Fasttrack" Thanks again. I am learning.

                            Click image for larger version  Name:	20200120_205247.jpg Views:	15 Size:	2.07 MB ID:	1850253
                            I think the smaller thread is for holding 40 taper tooling,using a 50 to 40 reducer and Congrats on new machine,what size of table does it have?
                            Last edited by Tundra Twin Track; 01-21-2020, 02:38 AM.

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                            • #29
                              I genuinely hope you've got some hours on big iron, you're looking at a sizable investment in a slow machine that has very limited use for most professionals, nvm hobbyists. I would also highly recommend taking a hard look at the machine otherwise before investing too heavily in it. Quite often broken handles are simply the tip of the ice berg, locating and fitting parts to these old beasts is a feat unto itself, and many of these have simply been worked to death. I'd also correct a few previous statements about power - RPCs and static converters need to be oversized ~1.5x, VFDs run actual size, so you need a 10 hp VFD or 15 hp RPC/static converter minimum.
                              "I am, and ever will be, a white-socks, pocket-protector, nerdy engineer -- born under the second law of thermodynamics, steeped in the steam tables, in love with free-body diagrams, transformed by Laplace, and propelled by compressible flow."

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by justanengineer View Post
                                I'd also correct a few previous statements about power - RPCs and static converters need to be oversized ~1.5x, VFDs run actual size, so you need a 10 hp VFD or 15 hp RPC/static converter minimum.
                                That is patently not true when using a VFD to do 1-phase to 3-phase. The Kearney Trecker is clutched, so a 10 hp RPC will likely work just fine. You'll probably end up being able to pull something like 85%-90% name plate power continuously and, if your overloads are sized appropriately and the idler has a service factor of 1.2 or more, you'll be able to pull 100% intermittently.

                                The 85%-90% is assuming it's a home-made RPC balanced a'la the Fitch Williams design.

                                And in case you think I'm full of it regarding VFDs, here we go:

                                https://www.vfds.com/blog/vfd-buying-guide

                                https://www.flowcontrolnetwork.com/p...you-size-a-vfd

                                https://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/s...-phase-216729/

                                Originally posted by Outlawspeedracer
                                Why does it have to be a 20hp for a 10hp motor?
                                You can read more in the links or via a Google search, but the basic principle is that the three phase motor is pulling the full load amps (FLA) across three phases or "legs". When using a VFD to not only provide the variable frequency drive but also do phase conversion, it has to pull significantly more current through the two legs that are available in single phase power. If the VFD isn't rated for this higher input current, it will smoke itself.

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