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  • #16
    If 40-50F feels too cold, you aren't working hard enough
    http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
    Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
    USA Maryland 21030

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    • #17
      I remember at my old job, there were days when the coolant in the bandsaw froze. Unheated plant about half a mile long, sub-zero weather.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Robg View Post
        Up here in Alberta Canada I have a detached 2 car garage with my shop in it (with the 2 cars). It’s insulated & the gas company recently moved the gas meters from inside the house to outside & I was able to get them to put it right by the garage saving $$. I put in a proper shop heater, vented and all very nicely. I keep the temperature at 4 degrees Celsius (39 F) all the time. Keeps the cars & machines warm enough to avoid excess moisture and I have no trouble with rusting. I just bump up the heat to about 14 C an hour or so before I want to do something there.
        Unfortunately a heated garage is the worst thing for a car where salt is used on the roads, the heat helps rust form.
        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

        Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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        • #19
          Originally posted by loose nut View Post

          Unfortunately a heated garage is the worst thing for a car where salt is used on the roads, the heat helps rust form.
          As opposed to that effect, the drying action of heat (hot air carries more water at the same relative humidity) can mean the salt and water have much shorter time to work. And, the heat can allow the snow/ice to melt, and drip most of the water and salt off the vehicle. The increased chemical action at warmer temps may not get as far if it has considerably less tome to act. Even at a doubling for each 10C.
          1601

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

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          • #20
            You've be surprised now nice the shop would be if just insulated. Once insulated it won't take much to warm it up. Any unvented heater should be avoided at all cost, it will be a condensation nightmare. .
            Mike
            Central Ohio, USA

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            • #21
              Originally posted by PStechPaul View Post
              If 40-50F feels too cold, you aren't working hard enough
              If you break a sweat in a 45F garage turning a part on a lathe, then you seriously need to do more cardio. 😋

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              • #22
                I put a Chinese diesel air heater in one of my shops for those times when I want quick dry heat and I don't want to go thru the rigamarole of getting my wood stove fired up.
                They put out a good shot of heat quickly and all that's required for venting is a small hole thru the wall.They do require a good 12 volt DC source of power to run. I have mine tied into a good automotive battery that I keep a maintainer hooked up to when needed.

                I have used these types of heaters in trucks in order to keep things toasty without having to run the engine all night. The Webasto and Espar German made heaters although very well made, are very pricey. The Chinese have done an excellent job of making a very reliable copy at 10% of the German brand's cost.

                They are fully adjustable for heat output and will make things comfy in short order, although as we all know it always takes more time to heat the thousands of pounds of cold iron.
                When checking the air temp coming out of mine I get a reading of about 200°F with an inlet air temp slightly below freezing, as the room temps climb so does the outlet air temp.Easy on fuel usage and a great source of quick dry heat , plus I can use my remote if needed to turn the unit on while I have breakfast.

                These units are in widespread use in other countries for heating small work shops and RVs so there is a ton of online feedback, most of it very positive.

                If one is seriously considering the purchase of one of these units I would suggest he check out John McK 47's YouTube channel as this gentleman has done a very thorough job of covering every facet of these heaters in great detail.

                I'll leave a link to John's overview of these units and part 1 of a 15 part series on the care and feeding of these heaters.
                I won't personally be back in my office till sometime tomorrow to answer any questions but John's coverage should answer most queries.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvwmU_CcmGI








                Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                Location: British Columbia

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                • #23
                  Thanks for all the help. Looks like the first order of business is insulation.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
                    Green Bay weather is tough and I was teaching my good friend Tom how to machine.
                    Tom was a woodworker and wanted to learn machining and wanted a shop but his
                    rental house had a small un-heated two car garage ( 20 x 22) . I thought he was nuts but he did this to his garage. and still parked his car inside
                    He built a 2x4 wall (2" thickness) 16' x 5' and covered it with 2" Pink Foam panels all sides and had a 2" Foam ceiling and threw a
                    cheap rug on the floor and then put his Vernon Mill, Colchester Lathe, Rollaway and a Bench and put an electric Ceramic 120 volt heater in it
                    and left it on 24/7 ( temp control. ) and it was amazing. A very comfortable machine shop
                    I laughed at the 2" foam door with barn hinges , but it worked and was not two expensive to run....also had two four foot florescent fixtures for light
                    Insulation on floor ,walls, and ceiling make a big difference
                    All things are possible ...
                    Rich
                    That 2" pink foam can help a lot for insulating a work space. It makes a big difference in the summer too. It also happens to fit really well on the inside of some metal garage doors that roll up in sections.

                    I gotta say - all the tales of woe about heating shops in the winter are one of the things that helped me decide not to move a few years ago. Sometimes I forget how fortunate I am with my shop - it's the downstairs of our split level house; all 1500 sq. ft. is polished concrete floors with unfinished walls (so only the upstairs counts for property tax assessment), and it's heated with the same system as upstairs so it remains a pretty constant 60-70 F all year. The sunken basement keeps it cool in the summer, and being part of the house keeps it warm in the winter. Of course the connected garage is unheated and it gets pretty cold so I don't do much welding during those times, but the machine tools stay warm inside.

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                    • #25
                      The pink and blue typically costs a lot more than the cheap white beaded stuff. But depending on where it's fitted it can be just fine for a lot less money. Cheaper yet is good ol' pink fiberglass batting then apply a plastic vapor barrier over it to avoid fibers floating around the shop. And being very crushable the fiberglass does not need fussy amounts of fitting and cutting.

                      The insulation doesn't need to cost the world. Look at the options at your local building supply.
                      Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                      • #26
                        I have found that mice like to rip up the fiberglass bats and use pieces for nests. They probably itch a lot
                        http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                        Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                        USA Maryland 21030

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Yondering View Post

                          ........... Sometimes I forget how fortunate I am with my shop - it's the downstairs of our split level house; all 1500 sq. ft. is polished concrete floors with unfinished walls (so only the upstairs counts for property tax assessment), and it's heated with the same system as upstairs so it remains a pretty constant 60-70 F all year. The sunken basement keeps it cool in the summer, and being part of the house keeps it warm in the winter. Of course the connected garage is unheated and it gets pretty cold so I don't do much welding during those times, but the machine tools stay warm inside.
                          So true.......I have radiator heat (hot water) and the radiation from the pipes makes the basement as warm as the rest of the house in cold weather. It is spring and fall when it is too cold down there.
                          1601

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                            So true.......I have radiator heat (hot water) and the radiation from the pipes makes the basement as warm as the rest of the house in cold weather. It is spring and fall when it is too cold down there.
                            You got black iron pipes carrying that hot water?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Franz© View Post

                              You got black iron pipes carrying that hot water?
                              Yes
                              1601

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

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                              • #30
                                Decades ago i put In a ceiling mount 7kw electric fan heater. The unheated shop is joined to the house so rarely gets below 40. Even flat out (I usually run it at 3.5kw) it's only going to cost me 90 cent an hour! Probably 40% duty cycle. You can do the math. I only use it in the really cold days, or if I have whiney guests.

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