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  • #61
    It makes a big difference --- and it's the main reason why my cars rated a lousy 33mpg highway, the CRX's not only did fantastic --- the speedo kept climbing well into the triple digits, My old 91 Si only had a factory 108 HP and would do a consistent 130-135mph! and although I did have headers and ram air it's a mile high so maybe 90hp is getting it done! although the thin air works in your favor IF you get to keep all your ponies but not in my case, they had almost the same CD as a Prius,,,

    Now I have about 150 ponies, maybe effectively 125, I get up to about 120mph and forget it, the old pea-shooter CRX would still be climbing - I hit a wall, I drive a little wind pig...

    that's the difference between .29 and .35

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    • #62
      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
      It makes a big difference ---
      The difference is insignificant for a car that is meant to be driven in a crowded urban environment at low speeds.


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      • #63
        Well - that may be true - but got some of the diesel mileage specs off of a "smart car site" (yeah can't believe it but there's a site for everything) this morning and one of the main complaints was that even with the diesel the mileage fell on it's face if you pushed it past 60mph and beyond, some of this could also be due to gearing but point being is --- they do sell them in n. america, and in n. america you do have allot of rural area's so if there not meant to drive here then why do (did) they sell them here?

        anyways - point being was why they were so lousy of a MPG rating and I gave 3
        and one of the other main reasons was that they are weight pigs --- and that does not go well with urban driving, the all gas or diesel is the ones were talking about - so they have no re-gen braking so good luck recovering your losses after accelerating the little 1 ton pig and then having to toss all the energy back into the brake system and heat... if the damn things are that "urban" they should weigh about 1200lbs.

        the other reason besides being a wind and weight pig was the gas engines just did not put a high emphasis on efficiency - as I pretty much proved with the incredible MPG increase that the diesels show..
        Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 02-13-2020, 06:46 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
          Well - that may be true - but got some of the diesel mileage specs off of a "smart car site" (yeah can't believe it but there's a site for everything) this morning and one of the main complaints was that even with the diesel the mileage fell on it's face if you pushed it past 60mph and beyond, some of this could also be due to gearing but point being is --- they do sell them in n. america, and in n. america you do have allot of rural area's so if there not meant to drive here then why do (did) they sell them here?

          anyways - point being was why they were so lousy of a MPG rating and I gave 3
          and one of the other main reasons was that they are weight pigs --- and that does not go well with urban driving, the all gas or diesel is the ones were talking about - so they have no re-gen braking so good luck recovering your losses after accelerating the little 1 ton pig and then having to toss all the energy back into the brake system and heat... if the damn things are that "urban" they should weigh about 1200lbs.

          the other reason besides being a wind and weight pig was the gas engines just did not put a high emphasis on efficiency - as I pretty much proved with the incredible MPG increase that the diesels show..
          Your world is pretty small. These are cars designed for the European market -- specifically crowded European cities. They weren't designed for the U.S., the U.S. was never a significant market for them, and they quit selling them in the U.S. a few years ago. Their drag coefficient is unimportant when they are used in the role for which they were designed.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post

            Your world is pretty small. These are cars designed for the European market -- specifically crowded European cities. They weren't designed for the U.S., the U.S. was never a significant market for them, and they quit selling them in the U.S. a few years ago. Their drag coefficient is unimportant when they are used in the role for which they were designed.
            Your world is actually tiny lol as I JUST STATED the drag coefficient was not the only factor in why everyone was wondering WHY the cars don't do so well OVER HERE --- and does not matter what the Fuque the market was originally for - it was to explain the reasoning as to why - whether they were built for it or not GET IT???

            and even in the euro market --- they still miss an important factor --- WEIGHT ---- you still have to STOP THEM AND TAKE BACK OFF,,, Geeze --- if your going to try and nitpick and more importantly nitpick with ME --- then at least get your fuquing act together dude,,, WHY are they also such pigs in the city for their size? they should be doing much better (DUH they literally weigh a ton!!! DUH)

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            • #66
              There's one area that can't be argued with -- they do great fitting into an ultra tight parking space ---- oh ok now you have something ---- we already agreed on that - nobodys arguing with that --- but they suck at everything else. although like I stated the diesel makes up for allot of sins....

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Franz©

                747, big deal, just another big tube made by Boeing towed away from the ramp by a tractor and flown by computers programmed by guys in India on laptops.
                The 747 actually reminds me of an ATM. Push a bunch of buttons and every two weeks, cash shows up.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                  if your going to try and nitpick and more importantly nitpick with ME
                  I'm sorry, your Lordship.

                  WHY are they also such pigs in the city for their size?
                  It doesn't matter how small a car is, it still needs all the heaviest components (engine, transmission, etc).
                  they should be doing much better (DUH they literally weigh a ton!!! DUH)
                  ​​​​​​​Even at 2,000 lbs a Smart car would be the lightest production car in the U.S. if they were still sold here.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
                    I'm sorry, your Lordship.
                    ahhhh don't worry about it - it's all good


                    It doesn't matter how small a car is, it still needs all the heaviest components (engine, transmission, etc).
                    and the heaviest components can and should fit the demands of the car --- even as much as they weigh the engines are only .7 liters lol of course you can spring for the "big block" 1 liter lol that's crazy --- you think all that weight is coming from the half size engine and trannies? no way in fact if they kept the weight of the pig down they could have gotten by with a little turbo half liter, lol

                    Even at 2,000 lbs a Smart car would be the lightest production car in the U.S. if they were still sold here.
                    do you want me to really go into the bumper to bumper size and width and then compare it to cars that have been sold in the USA and what the car should really weigh in comparison? nah - I didn't think so ---- they are PIGS...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post


                      It doesn't matter how small a car is, it still needs all the heaviest components (engine, transmission, etc).
                      But for a small car they can be much smaller, and therefore lighter. Your argument is that as they get smaller, the mass per kW output may be larger, on a "diminishing returns" system due to the size vs cylinder volume cube law. And that is true, although I do not know that it is a big factor.

                      Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
                      ​​​​​​​Even at 2,000 lbs a Smart car would be the lightest production car in the U.S. if they were still sold here.
                      It might be the densest.... The problem is really regulations. Making that small a package meet all the crash test requirements is just bound to cause problems with weight. Compare the thing with the similar sized car that had the door on the front ( Isetta), which I have not seen one of anywhere for 40 years. That car was built light and would flatten like an ant in a crash.
                      Last edited by J Tiers; 02-13-2020, 08:27 PM.
                      1601

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        Compare the thing with the similar sized car that had the door on the front ( Isetta), which I have not seen one of anywhere for 40 years. That car was built light and would flatten like an ant in a crash.
                        Ah, the Isetta. Death trap in a crash, of course. Probably a motorcycle would have been safer, at least you might be thrown off.

                        Many years ago ('61 or '62) I worked swing shift at Tektronix in Beaverton. One of the guys I worked with (nice guy and about 6'2", around 180 pounds, looked comical in the car) had an Isetta. He caught me in the parking lot as I was pulling out and asked for a ride home - his Isetta wouldn't start. Sure, no problem. But how much does that thing weigh, anyway? I had a brilliant idea.

                        I backed my '52 Chevy up to his Isetta and opened the trunk. The two of us lifted the rear end up and placed the tiny rear wheels (very close together) in the trunk. And off we went. Got him home (thankfully we didn't have to get on the highway).

                        I suspect the whole car weighed around 800 pounds...

                        -js
                        Last edited by Jim Stewart; 02-13-2020, 09:48 PM.
                        There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                        Location: SF Bay Area

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                        • #72
                          what was that one car built that was basically made out of semi-waterproof compressed cardboard lol I think it might have been french... ???

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                            what was that one car built that was basically made out of semi-waterproof compressed cardboard lol I think it might have been french... ???
                            That would be the Citroen 2CV (deux-chevaux or two horsepower). The few left now are in demand and command amazing prices at the exotic car dealers.

                            (Their bodies were made of corrugated steel.)

                            -js
                            There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                            Location: SF Bay Area

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                            • #74
                              Im sure there was one with compressed cardboard structure --- the joke was that you could not leave them out in the rain too long - but really not a joke as they would get "soggy"


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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                                do you want me to really go into the bumper to bumper size and width and then compare it to cars that have been sold in the USA and what the car should really weigh in comparison? nah - I didn't think so ---- they are PIGS...
                                The data isn't that hard to find. The lightest car sold in the U.S. for the past few years has been the Mitsubishi Mirage, weighing in at 2,018 lbs. The last gas-burning Smart Car sold in the U.S. was the 2016 (3rd generation), which weighed 1,984 lbs. The vast majority (89%) of Smart Cars sold in the U.S., however, were the 1,653-1,753 lb. 2nd generation models.

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