Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

O.T. bub-bye ugly tesla truck...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Solar panels do seem to be an issue according to this article in Forbes.
    Much more in the article linked to above.

    • The problem of solar panel disposal “will explode with full force in two or three decades and wreck the environment” because it “is a huge amount of waste and they are not easy to recycle.”
    • “The reality is that there is a problem now, and it’s only going to get larger, expanding as rapidly as the PV industry expanded 10 years ago.”
    • “Contrary to previous assumptions, pollutants such as lead or carcinogenic cadmium can be almost completely washed out of the fragments of solar modules over a period of several months, for example by rainwater.”
    Were these statements made by the right-wing Heritage Foundation? Koch-funded global warming deniers? The editorial board of the Wall Street Journal?
    None of the above. Rather, the quotes come from a senior Chinese solar official, a 40-year veteran of the U.S. solar industry, and research scientists with the German Stuttgart Institute for Photovoltaics.


    Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
    Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

    Location: British Columbia

    Comment


    • I won't be reading that Forbes article. It's loaded with javascripts. But I would think that Forbes, being a financial magazine, would note that when there is a huge number of solar panels to recycle in 20 years, the sheer volume will spur a recycling industry to handle it.

      Like everything dealing with energy there are best and worst cases. A windfarm close to an urban center can be quite efficient. On the other hand, if you have to build 1000 miles of power lines, it can be a losing proposition. Around here the newest wind farms use fewer mills but they are huge. I noticed that they are becoming popular with the gravel companies that need to locate their plants in out of the way places.

      AD5MB said "these are negative net value, negative energy production devices"

      I remember a time when a silicon solar panel took more energy to make than they could produce in their lifetime. A couple decades back the processes improved such that a modern solar panel creates more energy in a matter of weeks than it took to make the panel.

      AD5MB also notes that "both solar panels and wind turbines eventually become toxic waste". Yep. So does the food you eat, the drugs you take and the TV you watch.



      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.

      Comment


      • Good post Dan

        Comment


        • The only things I ever flew, besides paper airplanes, was a Cessna and a Navion. I was around 10 or so at the time. Neither one could carry a sheet of plywood, but that didn't matter to me- they were fun to fly, especially the Navion. No matter that I was scared shikless, the pilot made me take the stick and maneuver around a bit.

          As far as being able to carry full sheets of ply, my van can do that- with the doors closed too. And, everything stays dry- imagine that-

          I even got my bike in there when it needed the bike hospital- bit of a chore, but I got in in there and tied it upright. That would have been easier with a pickup-
          I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

          Comment


          • I vetted a financing deal for a wind farm awhile ago. What you need is a big site, strong steady winds with low wind shear.....and a great big rate subsidy. The site was great but at the time it was not remotely economically viable except for the rate subsidies available. Still, that might not be a bad thing....its a way spur on an industry and not be left behind. Long term other energy sources are likely to increase in cost to the point of wind actually working. However it simply wasn't arguable as making economic sense as a current power generating method, sans the artificial economy of a subsidy. That was probably 12 or 15 years ago....I wonder if that still holds true?
            Last edited by Mcgyver; 02-15-2020, 06:40 PM.
            .

            Comment


            • Don' be worry.
              When EVs replace gas and diesel, and Guv'mints realize the loss of fuel taxes, I predict the poop will hit the fan.
              The income will have to be made up.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oldstarfire View Post
                Don' be worry.
                When EVs replace gas and diesel, and Guv'mints realize the loss of fuel taxes, I predict the poop will hit the fan.
                The income will have to be made up.
                That's already happening in some places. Just extra fees on the license fee in some places. Others are discussing per mile tax bills. We are paying 53 cents a gallon in our area for state / local taxes. Add another 18 cents or so for the feds and you have almost 70 cents a gallon. Given the current 25 mpg average efficiency for gas cars that's about 2 cents a mile. Yet another $250 a year tax would not be surprising.
                At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and extra parts.

                Location: SF East Bay.

                Comment


                • What is really needed is a great reduction in transportation as we now know it, by transitioning most freight to railways, and using lightweight trucks for local deliveries. Also more people driving smaller vehicles, IF they need to drive. Heavy trucks, including guys with low self-esteem tearing around in 3 ton duallies, cause most of the wear and tear on roads and bridges. So there would be less need for expensive infrastructure repair and maintenance without big rigs on roads. And much safer, too, especially with truckers often overworked and distracted.
                  http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                  Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                  USA Maryland 21030

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                    ...... Long term other energy sources are likely to increase in cost to the point of wind actually working........
                    Wind power is just short of being a complete hoax at the moment.

                    The issue is several-fold.

                    The first is that you need to have a generator that is much bigger than the average wind justifies. Many are figured, power-wise, at a 30 mph or so wind. So you look at that, and your 3 MW and it looks great.

                    But there are two scenarios that mess the rosy looking prospect up. Winds are rarely that constant, and most of the really good wind locations were nabbed long ago. So the wind will not always be a good steady 30 mph. It may be half that, or t may be much higher. perhaps double.

                    So, if the wind is half, 15 mph, your 3 MW turbine that you had to pay for, is going to produce just 375 kW. OUCH!, that's not gonna pay well.

                    Now, if the wind were double, that would be a good lot of power. And the wind power potential in any place, along with the average wind speed, may INCLUDE that 60 mph wind speed that may be just one or two days a year. AND, if that wind speed did happen, and you let the turbine be driven, your 3MW turbine would be trying to make 24MW, which it will not do for long, if you let it try. So, there is a ton of good power that you could use, and you cannot handle it, you must shut down to prevent damage, "feather" the blades, and lose money.

                    You pay for a big turbine, and you do not get the full benefit of it's capability.

                    The second issue is that there is no way to store the enormous amount of available energy, during times that the powerco does not WANT your power. Maybe the base load is too low, or the percent wind is too high for the grid to be stable, whatever. Yet ANOTHER way for you to lose money. There is power to be had, and you cannot sell it so you cannot generate. With a storage facility, you could divert the power to that, and sell it later..

                    The third issue is similar, also a storage issue. Wind power can de-stabilize the grid if it forms too much of the available power, because the wind may die down for a little while, and then the powerco has customers, and no source for the power. They would have to buy it on the (expensive) instantaneous spot market, assuming there is any available.

                    If the wind farm fed a storage facility, then the stored power could balance out that variability, and allow a smooth transition to a peaking plant, that can be started up fairly fast. Or, perhaps ride right through and not require the peaking plant.

                    The storage facility we are discussing is not just a little thing.... They are called "utility scale" batteries, because the energy levels are huge, hundreds or thousands of megawatt hours. Energy amounts similar to an oil tank farm. That does not exist yet.

                    Without such a facility, and maybe even WITH it, subsidies would probably be needed to make wind power competitive. Certainly such battery technology is needed to make wind (and even solar, which is far more reliable) actually practical and approaching usability as an everyday power source..


                    Last edited by J Tiers; 02-16-2020, 11:01 PM.
                    1601

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan

                    Comment


                    • At an environmental group meeting today, we discussed energy sources for the future, and the thorium nuclear reactor appears to be a very safe and efficient alternative to the present uranium-fueled plants. The technology has been tested, but for large scale implementation, private companies would need to be heavily subsidized as start-ups to cover the cost of the infrastructure and disadvantages of being the first to take the leap. This points to the advantages of nationalizing the energy industry, but that rails against our stubborn insistence on capitalism, profit, and continued growth to support our economy.
                      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                      Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                      USA Maryland 21030

                      Comment


                      • There seems to be quite a lot of thorium......

                        But for the uranium fueled types, the IFR reactor, which is a breeder, and "burns" the fuel down to where there really is almost nothing left, looks like the thing to use. It is very substantially developed, it was being worked on and close to commercial practicality until that cretin Clinton killed it.
                        1601

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan

                        Comment


                        • As a matter of storage why can't they just use the excess electricity to pump water to higher elevation and when needed use the falling water to generate electricity? Or lift weights as storage units.
                          Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                          How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

                          Comment


                          • I told our daughter I would buy her a new car for her 18th birthday. She has mentioned she would like a silver camero. Today I showed her the picture of the Nikola pickup and she really liked it........thanks A.K. Boomer for posting this truck.
                            Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                            How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                              As a matter of storage why can't they just use the excess electricity to pump water to higher elevation and when needed use the falling water to generate electricity? Or lift weights as storage units.
                              We do that here in colo. but what do you do in the flatlands? it takes a fair amount of height gain close bye --- I cannot imagine lifting any other "weights" besides water as being practical, water is handy because it not only weighs allot but you can use the same generator as a motor lift and the same turbine as the pump... the plumbing is already in place for both....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Black Forest View Post
                                As a matter of storage why can't they just use the excess electricity to pump water to higher elevation and when needed use the falling water to generate electricity? Or lift weights as storage units.
                                It does not work that well for solar in the desert......

                                Or, as mentioned, for wind farms in flatland, as they normally are. One might imagine a man made lake with an equivalent underground tank, but the cost would likely be far in excess of the value of the power over a reasonable payback time.
                                1601

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X