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  • Emco maximat v10 help

    Hello all.
    noticed there was some people on this forum asking about the emco maximat v10s so thought id ask here also.

    Firstly let me say i knkw very very little about the machine and electrics and got the old girl to do some hobby stuff.
    Its a 3 phase lathe mill combo.

    The lathe motor is a2 speed 440v and i was talking to lots of places and finally found a place that has a vfd that converts my 240v single at home to 415v 3 phase(guy said that it would work fine on my setup with a rotary switch to select either the lathe or mill motor.

    Not knowing what im doing i arranged a sparkie to come out and hook it up for me and 6 weeks later i finally had one come out to help.
    he looked at the wiring diragram of the lathe and the vfd wiring and said he thought the 6 wires coming from the lathe motor 3 would be hi speed and he thought the other 3 were going to resistors so would be lpw speed. Being a qualified sparkie i was not going to argue. Anyway he hooked it up and turned it on and when he hit forward snap crackle and pop inside vfd.

    So now im stuck with a vfd that i need to send back and a lathe i cannot use.

    Speaking to the vfd supplier after he asked me to check the ohms between the wires and i did but he said there is not enough varience to knkw what goes where so must be leaking inside.

    Its all above my head but i seen the lathe working at a workshop before i brought it so im confused as to why he is saying it is stuffed.

    I will attach some pics of the motor plate for referance.

    If anyone can help point me in the right direction it would be amazing.
    Thanks all Click image for larger version

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    Attached Files

  • #2
    Motor numbers generally look reasonable. Did you measure from any wire to the motor case? That would be important, that should be "open", as in very high resistance that the meter does not give a number for. If there is a low resistance, it is possible that the VFD failed due to that.

    It is reasonably easy to foul up by letting a strand of wire "escape from" the terminal and touch the case, and many VFDs are not well protected against that.

    Motor does appear to be a two speed "pole changing" motor, with a 2:1 ratio of speeds. The wires likely do not go to resistors, but rather they are connected in two different ways to change the number of "poles" in the motor, which changes the speed. The reconnection is done by the bunch or switches or contactors shown, and changes the number of poles by a factor of two, accounting for the 2:1 ratio.

    There are other possible reasons for VFD failure. Switching a switch that is in between the VFD and the motor is one possible cause, depending on the VFD. Most VFDs are not affected by having a switch on their output, but some may be. Generally, when using the VFD, all controls; start, stop, speed, and direction, are controlled from the VFD. The switches that originally controlled the motor are not used. If you still want to change the speed range, that is best done with the VFD and motor "off".

    1601

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    Comment


    • #3
      I've run that exact lathe/motor on a vfd. Use the high speed configuration only. VFD for speed range (will give you 50% hp at half speed - same as the original). Get rid of the awful and unreliable switch. It's a Dahlanger wound motor so you short Y2,U2 and W2, and power to U4, W4, V4.

      Comment


      • #4
        I took the motor into a motor shop as the place i got the vfd from said the results i showed on the paper were not right so he thought it had a leak inside it because of those results

        Comment


        • #5
          Join the Emco V10 forum, they have ALL the information to get you up and running. Chances are, if the windings are suspect, it may be the VFD has blown them.

          Regards Ian.
          You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you have a link or can pm it to me please. Cant exactly find it googling it

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by LapRocket View Post
              I took the motor into a motor shop as the place i got the vfd from said the results i showed on the paper were not right so he thought it had a leak inside it because of those results
              That seems a little odd as a reaction. The measurements seem consistent to me, within the usual tolerance of such readings. From any "corner" to the "opposite middle" is 60 ohms or a bit more. From any corner to another is 54 or so ohms. From a corner to adjacent middles is 33 ohms.

              You have to allow for the fact that everything is connected, so you cannot expect it all to add up neatly. When you measure from a corner to adjacent middle, there is also a resistive path around the whole winding the "other direction", but it is a higher resistance. If you measure from Blue to Green, there is also the path from Blue to White, Red, Yellow, etc. That resistance ends up in parallel with the direct path Blue to Green, and reduces the value you come up with.

              Measuring corner to corner, you have a somewhat lower resistance through the "other path", and so on. That makes these numbers not come out to something you can add up so that the 60 ohms would eual 3x the measurement from a corner to an adjacent middle. The best reading is that one, but the real resistance will be a little larger, due to the "path" around the "other way".

              The important thing being that you get the same on each similar measurement, within a reasonable tolerance.

              Any "leakage", unless almost a "connection" would be a high resistance that would not show up on this measurement.

              Measure to the case from any wire. As mentioned you should get a very high resistance, that the meter may not even give a number for.
              1601

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Comment


              • #8
                thanks a heap for the reply. i will wait till monday when i get the motor back as the shop is not open on the weekends.
                when i get it back i will measure from the wires to the ground and case and let you know how i go.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry Laprocket for delay.

                  [email protected]

                  Regards Ian.
                  You might not like what I say,but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have an Emco lathe also. They can be finicky. You a nice one, dont toss it. the ten right
                    ??
                    Last edited by JRouche; 02-19-2020, 06:08 PM.
                    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes. Its the maximat 10 with mill attachment also.

                      Thought this would be a good start for the home hobbyist over the china light weight stuff new

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Take care with your "motor shop" . you'd be surprised how many do not understand Dahlanger wound motors. Here's a typical motor configuration it to test each speed : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Ky9NsDVQ5JNSKw Note the input power is on different motor leads between high and low speeds.

                        Another view : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ua7h1vkEHzISw8

                        If your motor shop knows what they are doing they will have performed a mega test which will determine the integrity of the insulation and and issue wrt ground.

                        When you get back to testing it, be sure to wire the (or another) vfd directly to the motor, not though the terrible Emco switch array.

                        The original emco motors are now hard to find, and there is no direct replacement due to the custom motor mount, but I've built up three V10 lathes with single speed/vfd and mounted them to the back on an adjustable plate for belt tension. Made those Polyvee also by making a new input pulley.
                        Last edited by lakeside53; 02-15-2020, 02:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LapRocket View Post
                          thanks a heap for the reply. i will wait till monday when i get the motor back as the shop is not open on the weekends.
                          when i get it back i will measure from the wires to the ground and case and let you know how i go.
                          The result you get may not be the full story, since the meter does not test with mains voltages, only with a low voltage. But if there is any really large issue of a few ohms to ground, the meter should find it.
                          1601

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
                            Take care with your "motor shop" . you'd be surprised how many do not understand Dahlanger wound motors. Here's a typical motor configuration it to test each speed : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Ky9NsDVQ5JNSKw Note the input power is on different motor leads between high and low speeds.

                            Another view : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ua7h1vkEHzISw8

                            If your motor shop knows what they are doing they will have performed a mega test which will determine the integrity of the insulation and and issue wrt ground.

                            When you get back to testing it, be sure to wire the (or another) vfd directly to the motor, not though the terrible Emco switch array.

                            The original emco motors are now hard to find, and there is no direct replacement due to the custom motor mount, but I've built up three V10 lathes with single speed/vfd and mounted them to the back on an adjustable plate for belt tension. Made those Polyvee also by making a new input pulley.

                            thanks for the reply.
                            i have sent you a PM as i am still a little lost by the whole thing..


                            i have not used the emco switches and goign to VFD.

                            i was not there when it was tested but the chap at the front said the old guy out the back tested it and it works in the speeds and all is good.
                            they lables 3 wites with a 4 and 3 wires with a 2 for me but thats the extent.
                            he also did say the old fella told him it was not possible to run this motor through a vfd. i am going back there tomorrow morning when the old chap is back and have a chat so would love some more info to talk to him about it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                              The result you get may not be the full story, since the meter does not test with mains voltages, only with a low voltage. But if there is any really large issue of a few ohms to ground, the meter should find it.
                              the chap at the motor shop said it was hooked up via 3 phase and ran and works perfectly.

                              just the fact i apparently cannot use it through a VFD and i thought that was incorrect going off what others have mentioned

                              Comment

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