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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

    Collets work fine in my experience, at least for the smaller ones. I've never had the pins so I can't tell you there. Just keep pliers handy if you're running without pins to eject the slug.



    I've only ever seen 3/4" and 1.25". The royersford runs the big ones pretty well, but it's a bit heavier than your average 20" DP, so maybe best to stick to the mill.
    I do like the mill for these. I dont want to break them.\

    The mag drill I have eats at will. It eats 3" plate like butter. JR

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  • JRouche
    replied
    [QUOTE=nickel-city-fab;n1857161]Hougen is one of the best brands, used to have them exclusively at work (glad it wasn't my budget...) Everything I saw was 3/4 shank, no springs in the pins. Dunno if it depends on the manufacturer or what.

    Yes, those bits eat right!! JR

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

    Collets work fine in my experience, at least for the smaller ones. I've never had the pins so I can't tell you there. Just keep pliers handy if you're running without pins to eject the slug.
    I've only ever seen 3/4" and 1.25". The royersford runs the big ones pretty well, but it's a bit heavier than your average 20" DP, so maybe best to stick to the mill.
    Amen, stick to the mill. I've never seen a drill press with enough torque unless its a big radial. And again, a pair of needlenose pliers and a cheap paintbrush, and some cutting oil and you're good to go. Make *sure* you have a rigid, solid and tight setup. No flex or give in it anywhere.

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  • The Metal Butcher
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    I have some parts that need a nice hole in 1/8" +/- steel, unknown alloy, but it saws, files, and drills OK. I could probably use some circle saws that I have, but I am curious about annular cutters. They seem to make neater and more accurate holes and this seems like a good chance to get acquainted with them. I would be using them on either my 20" drill press or mill.

    I am looking at McMaster and others and it seems like there are the cutters themselves, pilot pins, and arbors. And each of these is priced individually. I am not just concerned over the price here: individually priced items seem to indicate that some of them may not always be needed. So I have questions.

    First, are all three of these items (cutter, pilot pin, and arbor) all needed in every application? I know the cutter is needed but what about the pilot pin and arbor?

    They say the pilot pin also ejects the slug. How does that work? Is it spring loaded? Or do I need an additional spring? Or is there some other thing going on here? Is this something that is intended to allow their use in hand held drills?

    It looks like some of the cutters have a round shank with Weldon flats for set screws. So they could be mounted in milling cutter holders? If I get and use an R8 holder in my mill, would I need an arbor? When is the arbor used? In a drill press or magnetic drill?

    Those round shanks look rather short. But could they be mounted in a collet? Is there enough there for a good grip?

    McMaster does not give the brand names for their products but the quality is usually good. MSC seems to have a lot of Hougen cutters and accessories: is that a good brand?

    I need a good head start with these cutters.
    Collets work fine in my experience, at least for the smaller ones. I've never had the pins so I can't tell you there. Just keep pliers handy if you're running without pins to eject the slug.

    Originally posted by JRouche View Post

    Looks like weldon but probably a 5/8" shank. Adapters are avail.

    P.S. The 5/8" adapters are available, make yer own (and can I have one also please) . JR
    I've only ever seen 3/4" and 1.25". The royersford runs the big ones pretty well, but it's a bit heavier than your average 20" DP, so maybe best to stick to the mill.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Would like to add, I've never used a mag drill that had coolant, I've always squirted oil from a bottle using HSS bits. Worked just fine, I spent a summer years ago drilling *thousands* of 5/8 holes that way thru the flanges on 10" W beams (5/8 thk). for a bag house on a boiler stack. That bit lasted all summer. The owner of that shop was a notorious cheapskate and mandated that all tooling would be resharpened *after* the job. An old paintbrush is good to have for the shavings, along with a needle nose pliers... consider that essential for the swarf from an annular cutter.

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  • Tundra Twin Track
    replied
    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2484.JPG
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ID:	1857297 As others have mentioned 3/4" Weldon holder works fine with some mods,machining nose down to proper depth and altering set Screw by machining or grinding down so flat on cutters can be left alone.I measured 6 different brands and shank length on cutters were 0.835 to 0.935,one set screw is sufficient as Karnash brand left side in pic has universal shank to accept Quick In or 1 flat for standard set Screw setup.The shorter 1-1/6" on right is Hougan Copper Head which is Carbide,taller one is 1-1/4" 3" depth is also Hougan.When doing just a couple holes I don't bother with coolant through or pin but have to dig slug out which can be a pain.When have multiple holes I allways use the ejector pin and coolant through depending on Machine.

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  • 754
    replied
    I made a very nice chro-moly R8 adaptor, aluminium coolant banjo that rides on o rings on the adaptor, and circlips to prevent up and down movement.
    be advised , you can push pretty hard with coolant , but occasionally they can seize and grenade..
    I can remember at time 2 mills going doing the same hole on each, completing to see who can do the most.
    1 inch depth are cheap, 2 inch a lot more, 3 inch quite high price.l
    they can be used on a dripp press , but have to be started carefully, once the circle starts, they self center. With 2 hp it's a pretty hard push to do 1 15/16 holes in steel , so I think on a medium drill press 1 1/4 should be doable.

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  • DR
    replied
    Been using them forever.

    As others have mentioned the shank is not Weldon, the flats don't line up with a Weldon holder unless you shorten the end of the holder (or grind new flats on the cutter).

    Never seen any with a spring ejector, I thought the pin was intended to center the cutter on a punch mark.

    I was lucky to find a Hougen 1" arbor with coolant injector assembly at a dealer close out sale. Hook the mill's coolant hose to the rotating ring on the arbor. We never run without coolant which is injected inside the cutter.

    KBC had some Polish made annular cutters at about half the price of domestic ones. Not quite as good as domestic, but if you're careful to program feeds and speeds correctly on the CNC they last a long time.

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  • true temper
    replied
    I bought a cheep r8 weldon endmill holder put it in the mill, put a piece of brazed carbide tool bit in the vise and faced off the holder till the annular cutter would go in far enough to reach the set screws.
    I buy my cutters on eBay you can find some good deals on there.
    I rarely use the pins even on mag drill they have a valve built in when pressed in coolant starts flowing.
    I wouldn’t try to use them on a drillpress, not ridgid enough.
    I wouldn’t think about using them on a hand drill. On a large dia. Cutter my magdrill is iffy if I can I clamp it down to prevent it from walking.
    if drilling multiple layers you have to clean out each slug, before cutting the next one.
    You will smile every time you use an annular cutter over a hole saw or twist drill.

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  • 754
    replied
    J Rouche, I explained the function of the pin. When I was rotobroaching on the lathe , the slugs ejected thru spindle with enough force I had to build a catcher. That is 20 or plus inches from the work , clear thru the spindle and out the back.
    if you don't run the ejector, you often spend more time removing slugs than drilling holes. Plus when the pin pushes up you get big coolant flow.. the cutters cost a bit to sharpen. Be aware not every one that sharpens them does a good job..

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  • Dunc
    replied
    Look on you tube for "annular cutter arbor". Several build it videos. I suspect that the big money is in the cutters not the add-ons.

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  • Stepside
    replied
    If you have a secure set-up, you can cut 1/2 holes as welll other partial holes. With the correct size cutter you can make the "birdsmouth" for a pipe/tube joint. The accuracy is close enough to make a Silver Braze joint. The other day I used one to enlarge the arbor hole in a large circl saw blade. Slow speed and cutting fluid.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Hougen is one of the best brands, used to have them exclusively at work (glad it wasn't my budget...) Everything I saw was 3/4 shank, no springs in the pins. Dunno if it depends on the manufacturer or what. Either way you will want things clamped solidly. I was able to lean my full weight on the machine and the cutters didn't even grunt, they just took more DOC. I used to actually tack my workpieces right onto the table.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    I have some parts that need a nice hole in 1/8" +/- steel, unknown alloy, but it saws, files, and drills OK. I could probably use some circle saws that I have, but I am curious about annular cutters. They seem to make neater and more accurate holes and this seems like a good chance to get acquainted with them. I would be using them on either my 20" drill press or mill.

    I am looking at McMaster and others and it seems like there are the cutters themselves, pilot pins, and arbors. And each of these is priced individually. I am not just concerned over the price here: individually priced items seem to indicate that some of them may not always be needed. So I have questions.

    First, are all three of these items (cutter, pilot pin, and arbor) all needed in every application? I know the cutter is needed but what about the pilot pin and arbor?

    They say the pilot pin also ejects the slug. How does that work? Is it spring loaded? Or do I need an additional spring? Or is there some other thing going on here? Is this something that is intended to allow their use in hand held drills?

    It looks like some of the cutters have a round shank with Weldon flats for set screws. So they could be mounted in milling cutter holders? If I get and use an R8 holder in my mill, would I need an arbor? When is the arbor used? In a drill press or magnetic drill?

    Those round shanks look rather short. But could they be mounted in a collet? Is there enough there for a good grip?

    McMaster does not give the brand names for their products but the quality is usually good. MSC seems to have a lot of Hougen cutters and accessories: is that a good brand?

    I need a good head start with these cutters.
    Very nice post and questions. I usually edit out the "fluff" from folks posts. I couldnt.

    Hougen is some of the best.

    Looks like weldon but probably a 5/8" shank. Adapters are avail.

    Yes, they are spring loaded. Why? I dont know. It is not to eject the slug, it is a very light pressure. I think the pin it spring loaded to keep heavy hands from breaking them

    The pilot is good for mag drills. On the mill or drill press I dont think they are completely needed. Always good to use when you can.

    McMaster is notorious for not saying who the product is from. Dont like that. The deal is they always ship out what I think is top of the line, Always top shelf with those guys.

    You will have fun. Those are good circle saws, saws, not drills JR

    P.S. The 5/8" adapters are available, make yer own (and can I have one also please) . JR



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  • Tundra Twin Track
    replied
    I have used them a lot in Milling Machine & Drill Press very little with MagDrill and have used with&without coolant through.In Drill Press extend quill as little as possible unless tight in the bore and should be sturdy.Start cut slow to allow groove to form to keep Cutter true and lots of lube.Ive used just the Cutter being held in TG 100 collets on Mill with no issues,slower for larger dia cutters.Arbor in pic is economical one at $66 cdn Accusize MT 2,3,4&R8 with internal Spring no coolant through.Once you use them your hooked,my favorite hole maker anything larger than 1" and holes are ROUND Click image for larger version

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Views:	285
Size:	3.47 MB
ID:	1857128

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