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  • #16
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    Ah yes.... market timing. I make a lot of money on market timing.... as long as someone else is doing it with their stocks
    Never sell into a panic. I remember this happened with the ebola virus. Not sure if it was quite this bad though. But I think it was a relatively short lived panic.

    JL...............

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    • #17
      For the masks to be effective, they would have to be HEPA grade, in order to prevent catching a viral disease. For prevention,, a painters dust mask would help, as the droplets from a sneeze are immensely larger. Wash your hands often, practice good sanitation. Bleach is good.

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      • #18
        There have been outbreaks of corona virus's before, they just had different names. Sars, Norwalk (I had norwalk and it sucked but I'm still here) and others I believe come under that heading, Serious and people died but not the end of the world. People die from the flu and other common diseases all the time and no one panics. This one seems (maybe) to be more communicable but is it that much more lethal that everyone should freak out about it. The Spanish flue outbreak of the post WW1 period killed over 20 million, about 70 million today with adjusted population levels, and people just took it as a matter of fact, life sucks you just deal with it. Even this thread is just getting people worked up to a higher then necessary nervous state.
        Last edited by loose nut; 02-26-2020, 07:41 PM.
        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

        Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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        • #19
          • This is the current advise we are getting as EMS personnel.
          • Consider having on hand some OTC fever reducers (more than one kind I personally do, but what you do is up to you) like Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Naproxen Sodium, and/or Aspirin. You don't need an 8 year supply. Just a bottle or two of them.
          • Your first aid kit/disaster kit should have exam gloves. You do have one, right? If you don't, consider grabbing a box. Not a ton. But a box.
          • Same with facemasks. They don't do much but if you do get sick, wear one to reduce your droplet propulsion. Buy a box and wear it IF YOU ARE SICK AND HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR HOME FOR ANY REASON.

          CDC:
          Follow CDC’s recommendations for using a facemask.

          CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19. Facemasks should be used by people who show symptoms of COVID-19 to help prevent the spread of the disease to others. The use of facemasks is also crucial for health workers and people who are taking care of someone in close settings (at home or in a health care facility).

          If someone in your family gets COVID-19, the flu, common cold, whatever: Give the person who is sick a new facemask every few hours, wear one yourself, and wear gloves and consider eye protection. You do not need to fashion your own BSL 3 SCBA suit.
          • If you do fall sick with anything, call your doctor before you leave. They will advise you
          • further. Symptoms: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019.../symptoms.html

            Why call your doctor? They may also ask your symptoms and determine you should care at home, at which point follow their directions, which will likely be take your OTC fever reducers, hydrate and eat, and watch some Netflix. But whatever the case, follow their directions. SOURCE: "People who think they may have been exposed to COVID-19 should contact their healthcare provider immediately." - CDC COVID-19 PREVENTION & TREATMENT DO NOT RUSH TO A HOSPITAL, CLINIC, URGENT CARE, OR EXPRESS CARE LOCATION. There is a high likelihood the crush of people in Wuhan descending upon hospitals overwhelmed their system and exposed thousand of previously healthy people to the disease.
          • If you are not sick, follow the CDC's Transmission Prevention Protocols: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...treatment.html
          • Monitor local news*, the Minnesota Department of Health or on Twitter (MHEALTH Coronavirus Page), and/or your County Health Department. (*= News thrives on manufacturing crisis and panic, so take what you see and here with a huge grain of salt they're interested in your eyeballs, not keeping people from freaking out.)
          • Based on the training we did, what will likely happen is:
          • Pop-up 'drive-through' or community testing sites where people who suspect they have the disease can be tested.
          • Establishing relief systems for people who are self-quarantined or treating at home to receive aid/assistance.
          • Quarantines of whole cities aren't likely, they don't work; but do expect event cancellations and school/university/business closures.
          • The important takeaway is to not panic, not assume the worst, and not think you need to hole up in your house with a shotgun and 500 lbs of spam and funyuns. Take precautions, keep healthy, wash your hands and don't touch your face, and if you do get sick or exposed, call your healthcare provider and follow exactly their directions. Panic is literally the worst thing you can do. There is no need to go out and stock up on provisions. You don't need to buy out Costco of all of their bleach (btw, hydrogen peroxide makes a good cleaner in a pinch). You don't even need to go and start sanitizing your entire house right now. If you get sick, perhaps a good cleaning is needed.

            Finally, do not self-evacuate to your cabin/in-law's house in the woods/etc.. If you get sick or are exposed, just stay put, don't try to go someplace else. You're just going to make the situation worse.

            REMEMBER, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE EVER YEAR IN THE US ALONE FROM INFLUENZA. I know people like to say this is worse, but it's really not for the most part- infection rates and mortality rates are ballpark same. What is concerning about this is that it's new, so it hasn't mutated yet, we don't know enough about it to know everything about it, we have no antivirals for it, and it's contagious before symptoms increasing the possibility of transmission. You don't freak out over the flu. Don't freak out over this.

            Grab a beer, watch the Wild/Loons/Whatever you do, and wash yo hands before you do it.
          If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

          Comment


          • #20
            What Matt said - Coronavirus is a general term covering a variety/large family of viruses. A ‘novel’ coronavirus is one that has not previously been identified and thus introduces unknowns. COVID-19 is a specific virus and is not the same as the common corona viruses that circulate every year. 'Coronavirus' is like saying a ‘Ford’ and COVID-19 is like saying a blue 2018 F-150 XL super cab with a 5.0 Ti.

            Originally posted by RB211 View Post
            and compares to the common flu in the USA.

            No it doesn’t. Commonly available information from reliable sources give good estimates, and the mortality rate (typically >.1% or specifically .05% this year for the flu compared to approximately 2.3% average – if you are old, it goes to 8-14%) - so it is a far 'greater risk' comparatively.
            Also, there is no vaccine (which was roughly 50% effective this year for the common flu, IIRC), and there are a variety of other factors, many of which are still unknown. Important things like exactly how easily transmitted it is, how long quarantine needs to be, etc. And to preclude a pandemic, this is really useful stuff to thoroughly understand.

            Originally posted by RB211 View Post
            I believe that there's a lot of hysteria from the news media which makes money from stirring the pot. COV viruses have been around for a long time.

            I haven’t seen that, but then I get my news from a variety of legitimate news sources (in this case the WHO and CDC are doing their best to provide factual data), and not facebook, cable news (which has a lot of airtime to fill), or news/entertainment sources that claim the OTHER sources are creating hysteria. Some number of people will always act irrationally, but as I previously said, most people are very bad at assessing risk. Some are just idiots, what ya gonna do?
            Well… beyond what I mentioned in my last post, and being as careful as one should always be (hand-washing is the single most effective way of preventing the transmission of disease!), and perhaps informing the paranoid with factual information.

            Typical mechanisms of transmission are well understood, but people are sloppy and it is a pain to be careful, thus the spread of MRSA’s and the like. You may have a mask and gloves on, but if you wipe your eye, for example, it gets in. I am a certified instructor for this stuff, and find that no one likes wearing eye protection out in the field, or pretty much anything beyond nitrile gloves for that matter.

            Originally posted by loose nut View Post
            The Spanish flue outbreak of the post WW1 period killed over 20 million, about 70 million today with adjusted population levels, and people just took it as a matter of fact, life sucks you just deal with it

            Perhaps true, but it does seem reasonable to have greater expectations in the 21st century, and considering how much tax money is supposed to be going towards this sort of thing.

            Originally posted by loose nut View Post
            Even this thread is just getting people worked up to a higher then necessary nervous state.

            How so? Having a greater understanding and being informed is useful, even if the world has many alarmists - and the people here generally seem much more reasonable than the average.

            Added: Excellent information dalee, thanks for posting.
            Last edited by Joel; 02-26-2020, 08:10 PM.
            Location: North Central Texas

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
              hey, at least you have one

              Lots offered on the official sites. Of course you wonder how complete a picture that is and are we being managed. For example they are saying mask won't help citizens avoid it. Oh really? or is that just to make sure health care workers have enough. otoh, its unlikely other than speculation is going emerge from here, unless of course there is a lurking CDC Epidemiologist who comes forward.

              here's one of those speculative opinions....many countries lack the discipline to contain it. Including Canada. First thing they do is fight to fly home a few hundred people from the epicenter. Brilliant. Our Worm let national rail traffic grind to halt for week because of protesters blocking tracks....waffle waflle....not exactly the type to act decisively. Flights in from China, people are asked on a form if they're feeling well. I went China and around the time of SAR's and officials came on the plane in full enviro suits and took everyone's temperature, if you had a fever you (and possibly the plane load) were going to quarantine.....seems a little more proactive than asking if they feel ok.

              Keep in mind, 10 of thousands die each year in US from the flu. Most are elderly and infirm to begin with, however so are many that die from Covid19- over 80 the fatality rate is 70x that of a 40 year old. Cold comfort if you're over 80, but statistically speaking over 80 means you are at risk from a wide range of illness including the yearly flu.
              Yeah, I'm much more worried about the effects of government actions (or inaction) with regards to the virus than the actual virus itself. First we were facing possible shortages since our manufacturing sector was gutted and we rely on China to manufacture almost everything for us, and now we're facing the inability to get our raw materials to market and manufactured goods back. The virus may run through our urban areas, but it will be gone in a matter of months. The economy is going to be effected for years. And how will a country such as China react if the economy they have spent so many years building up by any means becomes threatened?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Joel View Post
                What Matt said - Coronavirus is a general term covering a variety/large family of viruses. A ‘novel’ coronavirus is one that has not previously been identified and thus introduces unknowns. COVID-19 is a specific virus and is not the same as the common corona viruses that circulate every year. 'Coronavirus' is like saying a ‘Ford’ and COVID-19 is like saying a blue 2018 F-150 XL super cab with a 5.0 Ti.


                No it doesn’t. Commonly available information from reliable sources give good estimates, and the mortality rate (typically >.1% or specifically .05% this year for the flu compared to approximately 2.3% average – if you are old, it goes to 8-14%) - so it is a far 'greater risk' comparatively.
                Also, there is no vaccine (which was roughly 50% effective this year for the common flu, IIRC), and there are a variety of other factors, many of which are still unknown. Important things like exactly how easily transmitted it is, how long quarantine needs to be, etc. And to preclude a pandemic, this is really useful stuff to thoroughly understand.


                I haven’t seen that, but then I get my news from a variety of legitimate news sources (in this case the WHO and CDC are doing their best to provide factual data), and not facebook, cable news (which has a lot of airtime to fill), or news/entertainment sources that claim the OTHER sources are creating hysteria. Some number of people will always act irrationally, but as I previously said, most people are very bad at assessing risk. Some are just idiots, what ya gonna do?
                Well… beyond what I mentioned in my last post, and being as careful as one should always be (hand-washing is the single most effective way of preventing the transmission of disease!), and perhaps informing the paranoid with factual information.

                Typical mechanisms of transmission are well understood, but people are sloppy and it is a pain to be careful, thus the spread of MRSA’s and the like. You may have a mask and gloves on, but if you wipe your eye, for example, it gets in. I am a certified instructor for this stuff, and find that no one likes wearing eye protection out in the field, or pretty much anything beyond nitrile gloves for that matter.


                Perhaps true, but it does seem reasonable to have greater expectations in the 21st century, and considering how much tax money is supposed to be going towards this sort of thing.


                How so? Having a greater understanding and being informed is useful, even if the world has many alarmists - and the people here generally seem much more reasonable than the average.

                Added: Excellent information dalee, thanks for posting.
                Thank you for clearing things up. Funny how everyone in Asia is wearing a mask. If you don't wear one as well, they stay away from you.
                My personal preference is to lock myself away from everyone and play with my toys. If it wasn't for my job, that's exactly what I would be doing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by dalee100 View Post

                  REMEMBER, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE EVER YEAR IN THE US ALONE FROM INFLUENZA. I know people like to say this is worse, but it's really not for the most part- infection rates and mortality rates are ballpark same.[/LIST]
                  Seasonal flu death rate is about .1% and Covid-19 is around 2.3% with a much higher R(0) So it's not even close the the same.

                  http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...-23-death-rate




                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Michael Edwards View Post

                    Seasonal flu death rate is about .1% and Covid-19 is around 2.3% with a much higher R(0) So it's not even close the the same.

                    http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-persp...-23-death-rate



                    What is the geographic region for that data? There has been no death from Covid-19 in the US I believe so the rate here is 0% thus far for the US. Of course that can change !

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Todays News Medias remind me of childhood Chicken Little tales
                      While driving today, I had observed/involved 3 incidents
                      Guy in front of me in Left turn lane . Green Arrow comes on and he sits there - we wait and wait until oncoming traffic also gets green and when it clears we go and I pass him.
                      Woman in right lane ( as I am passing -4 lane road) decides to come into my lane ..and swerves at last second
                      In a parking lot and a woman backs out of the parking space I am ready to enter after she leaves, except she stops and sits in the lane for maybe 30 seconds.

                      Do you know why ? - 3 in one hour They were all texting or talking on their phones . Forget the Virus folks, the drivers out there are nuts
                      and now Wisconsin is talking about legalizing Maryjane .. Now this is a real threat to our future !
                      Rich

                      Green Bay, WI

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        No use worrying about it. I've always believed like it says your days are numbered like the hairs on your head. But I also believe you can ugly or maim yourself like I did when I broke my back, in 4 places, then got the hardest MRSA to kill in a hospital after going in for sepses & ostiomyalitis. I hate medical facilities of any kind, the whole health care INDUSTRY & always draw the worst doctors. I woke up with a fever & hard to breath but I've been in the cold shop selling equipment & meeting people who I have no idea where or whom they've been around. IMHO death is just another adventure so cheer up & see you on the other side!
                        As far as the market went I got out at $14,000, back in at $6800 & out again at $14,000 again & stayed out as all I had was my long tem disabilty insurance coming in but all was paid off. Funny how people you think of friends want you fail as my wifes co-workers remarked they guessed we'd lose the farm. It's like crabs in a bucket, one can get out every time but put in two & neither will ever get out as the other will pull it back in. Same with people.
                        Last edited by flylo; 02-26-2020, 10:19 PM.

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                        • #27
                          My 401K and IRA are also both down, mostly in the past week. And I can ill afford that loss.

                          But there has been no change in the basics of business. The businesses are still there and still making money. Perhaps they will have a bad quarter, but things are basically sound. And it will come back. This is pure panic.



                          Originally posted by Willy View Post
                          You want scary news?
                          Check your investments. Mine have gone down the toilette since the COVID 19 outbreak, especially the last two weeks.
                          This has made me very sick.

                          Don't get me wrong this is a very serious outbreak and I'm not making lite of the casualties it has already caused. Not sure what it will take to get it under control.
                          Paul A.
                          SE Texas

                          Make it fit.
                          You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

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                          • #28
                            I don't buy that 2.3% fatality crap at all! I've read articles where they admit they really have no idea the number of subclinical or unreported cases. Same with the flue, except we have way more experience with it's communicability rates to groom the statistics. If I get the flue or Covid19, stay in bed and never see a doctor, I'm not on anyone's statistics. They have no idea how many in China got just a little sick. Everyone immune system is different. A cold that will have me on my ass for week will give my daughter a sniffle. And she's always been like that, rarely got sick as little kid.

                            What made the Spanish Flu novel was that it didn't kill the weak, it killed the healthiest people via a "Cytokine Storm", an over-reaction of your immune system. It was like immune judo, the stronger your immune system, the sicker you got. That's not this.

                            Location: Jersey City NJ USA

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              We get something like this and everyone starts taking drastic measures; some justified and others not. I can't help but think that if we ALL took more basic precautions on an EVERY day basis, perhaps, just perhaps, things like this would not happen in the first place.

                              I can't even count the number of times I have seen people here, in the US, walk out of a public rest room without washing their hands. Just basic sanitation, but it is often ignored. And if it is ignored here, in one of the most advanced countries on the planet, I can only wonder what happens in some other places.
                              Paul A.
                              SE Texas

                              Make it fit.
                              You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                                We get something like this and everyone starts taking drastic measures; some justified and others not. I can't help but think that if we ALL took more basic precautions on an EVERY day basis, perhaps, just perhaps, things like this would not happen in the first place.

                                I can't even count the number of times I have seen people here, in the US, walk out of a public rest room without washing their hands. Just basic sanitation, but it is often ignored. And if it is ignored here, in one of the most advanced countries on the planet, I can only wonder what happens in some other places.
                                That's just "Bubbas". They do that. And they open the door just like anyone else, grabbing the same handle that you have to grab.

                                The exit door ought to be a push-open door, just on account of that, but it seems like 75% of them have a pull handle.
                                1601

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan

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