OT. Craft Beer issue

[J Tiers]

Huh? That's news to me; had not heard of that. But then my beer drinking has been sort of sporadic the last two or three years. ...and bottled Yuengling when I do buy some.

Is the gas pellet thingy strictly a craft brew innovation?

no, first time I saw it was on some import Stout (Guinness). Must be at least 10 or 15 years ago.

It's overdone, and did not taste a bit like the draft Guinness I have had.

[MaxHeadRoom]

The one thing I cannot get used to in Guinness is the traditionally low CO2, although famous for the creamy head, which the Widget produces via nitrogen, it tastes very flat, I can only drink beer with a decent level of CO2
Max.

[tomato coupe]

The cans don't break as easily and they are totally opaque which is important. The hops that give many craft beers their wonderful aroma are susceptible to UV light and will turn to a skunk odor if exposed. As many craft brews turn to adding more hops for aroma this becomes more important.

Bingo.

[J Tiers]

The craft brewers are moving to cans as they grow big enough to afford the equipment. The cans don't break as easily and they are totally opaque which is important. The hops that give many craft beers their wonderful aroma are susceptible to UV light and will turn to a skunk odor if exposed. As many craft brews turn to adding more hops for aroma this becomes more important.

As most do not keep their beer out on the patio in the sun, the bottles for most better brands are not clear, and that even clear glass is not transparent to UVB, that seems less important. The bottles are normally a reddish brown, which should be better at blocking, although I do not know the attenuation curves for "standard brownish glass".

The brownish glass is apparently the cheapest type, as well.

[tomato coupe]

As most do not keep their beer out on the patio in the sun, the bottles for most better brands are not clear, and that even clear glass is not transparent to UVB, that seems less important. The bottles are normally a reddish brown, which should be better at blocking, although I do not know the attenuation curves for "standard brownish glass".

The brownish glass is apparently the cheapest type, as well.

Even with brown bottles "skunking" can occur very quickly, and UVA can cause it.

[lugnut]

I have been drinking beer for the past 60 years, and brewing beer for 30 years and there are two things that hold true. 1. You're not going like all beers, 2. You NEVER drink beer out of the can or bottle. Always pour it into a chilled class. One of the pluses about brewing your own is: you can adjust the receipt to your liking.

[J Tiers]

Even with brown bottles "skunking" can occur very quickly, and UVA can cause it.

Sources?

The information I found is that CLEAR bottles pass UVA, but brown ones block the light below around 450- 500nm or so.

Of course there is some latitude as to what IS a "brown" bottle.... there is density, and "color" (pass spectrum). Most are about the color of a "standard" reagent bottle.

I have never seen a case of "skunking" in brown bottles, aside from brands that are just consistently skunky to begin with (those are brands I have never had a non-skunky bottle of, and I now avoid them)

[rzbill]

I always liked "Golden Pheasant", but cannot get it anymore. I have been drinking New Glarus "Spotted Cow" for a while now, and like it also, almost as good as the "Golden Pheasant". But I can only get it when I travel up North.

I am buying some equipment from Wisconsin. I hope to get a New Glarus care package in the shipment.

I am a draft fan over packaged beer too. But..... interestingly, I was talking to a gentleman today who's task is to clean beer taps at bars in the region. He claims that he does not drink draft because of that experience. Hmmm. There you go.

The commentary about epoxy coating cans is right on. We would be in a world of hurt without BPA based resins as can liners.

[tomato coupe]

Sources?

What kind of sources would you like? There's tons of info about this on the internet thing.

[A.K. Boomer]

This is enlightening --- I never knew how "skunking" occurred but come to think of it - seems to have been more rare in cans and also seems to have been more of the "green" beer bottle trait. (like Mikie's big mouths but also and I hate to use the word - corona clear glass)

[J Tiers]

What kind of sources would you like? There's tons of info about this on the internet thing.

Yes there is. And the info I found was that the brown bottles were not transparent to UVA the way clear are. But both block UVB

My own experience supports the idea that "skunking" is not a factor with brown bottles, if the beer is not brewed to be that taste, as A-B products seem to be.

I suppose that attenuation curves would be a good start. I found this, which seems to substantially contradict your statements.

https://www.edenfoods.com/articles/view.php?articles_id=181

The entire idea seems odd, when you combine blocking from dark bottles with the fact that beer in transit is not commonly left out in the tropical sun. It's not as if bottles CREATE, or "guarantee", "skunking". At worst they do not block it as well as a can, which is for all practical purposes an absolute block to light.

So to create "skunking" from UV, you need both exposure and lack of blocking. Normal shipping practice, combined with UV blockage by brown bottles, seems to do a pretty good job.

[JRouche]

Even with brown bottles "skunking" can occur very quickly, and UVA can cause it.

I am o beer expert but I have found heat is the main source of skunked beer. JR.

[J Tiers]

I am o beer expert but I have found heat is the main source of skunked beer. JR.

Agree. but of course heat can be associated with exposure to sunlight, so there can be a connection.

Wine that is not "killed" somehow is susceptible to "going off" toward a vinegar flavor if the wrong form of yeast is in the bottles, and heat may make that happen faster. Some similar effect may occur in beer. When I made wine, there was an additive to stop the "bad bugs", but of course I was not making fine wine, just trying for the possible equivalent of ordinary bistro wine.

[Mr Fixit]

Bob and Doug are a riot.! I remember skunked beer from the boot of a class mates car in high school that he was so proud of even though it had been in there for a long time in the heat of the summer.
So I'll be giving a can of my favorite a try soon, but probably will start carrying my own pint glass to pour it in if at all possible when away from the house. At home always in a glass!

GREAT discussion.

TX
Mr fixit for the family
Chris

[tomato coupe]

Yes there is. And the info I found was that the brown bottles were not transparent to UVA the way clear are. But both block UVB

I suppose that attenuation curves would be a good start. I found this, which seems to substantially contradict your statements.

That graph has a linear vertical axis, which means it offers no useful information once the transmission of the glass falls below a few percent. Brown glass certainly transmits less UV than clear glass, but it does not block it entirely. Hence my statement "Even with brown bottles, skunking can occur very quickly, and UVA can cause it."

On edit: Did you read the article you cited? It clearly states they measured 3-4% transmission of sunlight at 325-350 nm with brown glass.