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O/T: My toyota with direct injection, does that make it a Diesel?

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  • O/T: My toyota with direct injection, does that make it a Diesel?

    No prolly not yet. It is about efficiency. That is why most manufactures went to two injectors per chamber.

    It does work well IMO. 35mpg when I want to keep it in ECO mode. Thats where I drive, ECO.

    Whatever. I think as tech in the auto industry gets a lil wrapped up with the other chit we will see better vehicles.

    Thats my tree huggin So. Cal. thought. Like it or leave it. JR

  • #2
    I thought diesel was defined as igniting hot fuel/air mixture by subjecting it to high pressure on the compression stroke.

    If you want to see ECO mode to the max, try one of the Prius Prime models. The acceleration is deliberately on the weak side of adequate so that it can honestly claim nearly twice the MPG that you are getting. It can be re-tuned to provide great acceleration but that would cost it the EPA MPG rating.

    Dan
    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

    Location: SF East Bay.

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    • #3
      Does it have SPARK plugs (not GLOW plugs)? Then not a diesel. My Honda Fit gets about 35 MPG, maybe 45 on highway. So did my Saturn SL1.
      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
      Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
      USA Maryland 21030

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      • #4
        eco mode: i always wondered about that, as an engines efficiency is highest at open throttle (highest compression).

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        • #5
          Engine efficiency VS car efficiency VS ECOnomy. Then you have to throw in ECOlogical vs ECOnomical. Which is the ECO mode trying to maximize?

          A long time ago (as recent as last year) the rental trucks had a light on the dash to let you know when you had the throttle open too wide, causing the engine to run too lean. This is, of course a problem that you run into when the engine is at low RPM and you stop on the throttle. So obviously the "open throttle (highest compression)" is not always the key.

          The most efficient car is one where the power being produced is sufficient to move the car at the desired speed while the engine is running at it's most efficient speed. I think that we can all agree on that. But there is a problem there. The power needed to idle is less than the power needed to accelerate which is different from what is needed to maintain a set speed on city streets which does not match the power needed to drive down the interstate.

          The ECO mode in some designs manages these differing needs by managing the throttle to match what the engine can handle. The transmission gears are carefully matched to the power production / consumption. CVTs take that to an extreme. ECO mode can even stop and start the engine as needed instead of idling.

          A hybrid takes engine efficiency / car economy the next step. It runs the engine at it's most efficient speed and stores excess power. Then it turns off the engine and uses the stored energy for a while to maintain speed.

          We are in an age of magical machines.
          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

          Location: SF East Bay.

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          • #6
            well, what i remember from the economy competitions (you know, these rocket shaped vehicles with skinny wheels) is that they would repeatedly accelerate at full throttle and cut off the engine. just for that reason. even when then an engine would not be running a stoich mixture at wot, which they do nowadays.

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            • #7
              Here's an example of what the future might hold. It works in the lab, may not work in real life.

              https://science.slashdot.org/story/2...t-fossil-fuels

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              • #8
                In reference to the OP's question. Understand that we have compression ignition engines (CI) and Spark ignition engines (SI), and maybe a few others. The fuel that you run doesn't make the engine one or the other. The fuel delivery mode also does not change one into another. Then if you want to talk about internal or external combustion engines then that should be another subject.

                lg
                no neat sig line
                near Salem OR

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dian View Post
                  well, what i remember from the economy competitions (you know, these rocket shaped vehicles with skinny wheels) is that they would repeatedly accelerate at full throttle and cut off the engine. just for that reason. even when then an engine would not be running a stoich mixture at wot, which they do nowadays.
                  Ipps. Some one J-rd up. Styoch?? Hahaaa.

                  stoich mixture at wot? Just ask.. 14.4 is a number.

                  Ok. Whats yer number? I have two modern O2 units. Separate gauges. w


                  What ever G

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                  • #10
                    No spark plugs = diesel.
                    Not diesel = has spark plugs...
                    Thank me later.

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                    • #11
                      whats the big deal about 35mpg??
                      the volkswagon rabbit diesel circa 1985 got 55mpg all day long, and it had no electronics. straight up simple design.
                      that was 55mpg 35 years ago.
                      Now inject 35 years of mandated EPA rules, and the engineers cannot beat the old school technology for mpg.
                      If the EPA had left the engineers alone, such that the engineers put their effort into efficiency rather than EPA compliance, the little car may get 100mpg.
                      Please dont start with the dirty smokey diesel rant, modern diesels aren't like that anymore.
                      Besides, if you burn less fuel going in, there must be LESS coming out the exhaust.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ringo View Post
                        Besides, if you burn less fuel going in, there must be LESS coming out the exhaust.
                        To some degree this is true - but they are still stuck on PPM (parts per million) as their guide,

                        It's the old argument that the early air cooled VW's polluted worse then a Cadillac - true story of your going by PPM's as they ran hotter and created more NoX emmisions, but the overall pollution was only a fraction of what the Caddy was puking out - including NoX,

                        it's an archaic way of gauging emissions that sadly is still being used today, overall consumption along with overall pollution should at the very least be part of the "formula"

                        Work vehicles that get stuff done should have more lenient rules but passenger vehicles should be held to a more strict guideline yet what this would do is loosen the noose for the really small efficient ones to be able to have slightly higher PPM's and therefor not be choked out by the same rules and regs due to them already putting out far less overall harmful particulates....

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                          To some degree this is true - but they are still stuck on PPM (parts per million) as their guide,

                          It's the old argument that the early air cooled VW's polluted worse then a Cadillac - true story of your going by PPM's as they ran hotter and created more NoX emmisions, but the overall pollution was only a fraction of what the Caddy was puking out - including NoX,

                          it's an archaic way of gauging emissions that sadly is still being used today, overall consumption along with overall pollution should at the very least be part of the "formula"

                          Work vehicles that get stuff done should have more lenient rules but passenger vehicles should be held to a more strict guideline yet what this would do is loosen the noose for the really small efficient ones to be able to have slightly higher PPM's and therefor not be choked out by the same rules and regs due to them already putting out far less overall harmful particulates....
                          EPA diesel emission standards already take horsepower classification into context. Depending on tier level of compliance (tier1-4 final) off-road diesel engines for example are divided into, I think up to 9 levels of HP output in order to ascertain emission goal requirements. Much the same in on-road requirements.
                          Emission goals for various contaminants are based on grams per brake horsepower hour.

                          Although expensive and a PIA at times, I'm glad we woke up and smelled the coffee (exhaust fumes?). Can you imagine the eye watering stench out there if we were still adhering to 1970 compliance levels?
                          Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                          Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                          Location: British Columbia

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                          • #14
                            The question is about injector type. Whether diesel or not should be obvious as to the fuel you must put in the vehicle. Most gasoline fuel injected vehicles have the injector(s) pointed at the back side of the intake valve in the intake port. This is commonly used most likely as it’s the most economical from an engineering/production standpoint. Having the injector port directly into the combustion chamber is more efficient but, to keep things simple, has other considerations such as cost and serviceability factors which are usually higher. This type of injector can & is used in gasoline engines. Multiple injectors would be used to provide a more even and efficient fuel delivery to the combustion chamber and to facilitate various economy & emission protocols.

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                            • #15
                              My 3.5L Toyota truck (gas, not diesel) has two direct injectors per cylinder, but one is ONLY used to clean the other. It comes on now and then when the engine is hot and idling (like at a traffic light). Sounds "rough" when it happens (several times a day), but that is normal. Supposedly this removes the fouling of the primary injectors.
                              Last edited by lakeside53; 05-08-2020, 08:28 PM.

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