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O/T: My toyota with direct injection, does that make it a Diesel?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by danlb View Post
    I thought diesel was defined as igniting hot fuel/air mixture by subjecting it to high pressure

    Dan
    Well not Hot Air and Fuel. The heat comes after the compression. Air temp? Not a consideration. JR

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TRX View Post
      > does that make it a Diesel

      Most modern gas engines use some form of HCCI, "Homogenous Charge Compression Ignition". On start-up and in some operating modes, they function as conventional spark-ignition engines. In some modes (usually low-power cruise) the engine management system twiddles things to go to HCCI, which is Diesel by another name.
      .
      I did some looking around, and found that "MOST" is not quite accurate. I could only find SOME passenger cars that claimed to having a version of HCCI in production. Mazda's newest Skyactiv appears to be the only HCCI derivative that is in production. Which ones have I missed?

      Dan
      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.

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      • #33
        I suppose that if the vehicle you drive has diesel in its main tank, it qualifies as a diesel.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by old mart View Post
          I suppose that if the vehicle you drive has diesel in its main tank, it qualifies as a diesel.
          I suspect that if I have diesel in the tank of MY car it will become a boat anchor. Well, at least until it's cleaned out.

          Dan
          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

          Location: SF East Bay.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by danlb View Post
            What ones have I missed?
            Uh... you're looking for specific mentions of HCCI in web-searcheable advertising or reviews?

            It's like EGR or spark advance; it's part of "how things are done", almost nobody cares except some extreme gearheads and specialized automotive engineers.

            You can find a some SAE papers from 2000-2010-ish when it was noteworthy, but it's just ordinary combustion stuff now, not something worth calling out specifically.


            There have been a bunch of similar technologies. One you might be interested in was Honda's Active Radical Combustion, which used trapped EGR to set the ignition point. Pretty hairy control algorithms there. It never went anywhere; I'm not sure why.

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            • #36
              I was looking for HCCI, HCSI or high compression ratios in the specs for the models, not the reviews. Some engines are going up to 12:1, but under 10.5:1 is common. I'm not seeing any of the hallmarks of homogenized combustion in the specs of run of the mill cars or trucks.

              Dan
              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

              Location: SF East Bay.

              Comment


              • #37
                Oops!. What happened? I thought we were talking about engines. Seems as though you got unraveled. Dont do that.. Its a simple toyota engine, I said 3.5l with two injectors per the six cylinders.

                One on the intake like my nova and one in the pot!. 1500psi!! Diesel fuel likes to rock and roll and ignite at around 570deg. That is why it works.

                Dumping 1500psi gasoline into the combustion chamber would crack the case.

                Well, they do it now. I opened that entire engine up with abour 4800 miles. It was a learning experience. LOL I dont have a manual for this car. And yeah, ripped all injectors, plugs and easy chit from this block.

                Yes, it was pissing me off, still my fault. The engine is is pretty nice once you lift the engine covers.... JR

                Ooops. Forgot to include this nugget idiots Love you all and stay safe.. JR

                O/T: My toyota with direct injection, does that make it a Diesel?
                Last edited by JRouche; 05-18-2020, 12:01 AM.

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                • #38
                  One could just look up the descriptions of Otto Cycle engines, and compare with Diesel cycle engines.

                  After that, it's all in nuance.

                  But, TVO is THERMAL VAPORIZING OIL and must have some external source of ignition to continue to make power. (hot carbon will do)

                  The particular fuel used is not really related to the differences, but with continued refinement for the purpose, Gasoline is different from diesel fuel in ways that match well with the different ignition systems. etc.

                  N.B. There is more ENERGY (btus) in a given quantity of diesel fuel compared to gasoline, That's where the increased mileage comes from.

                  Compare gasoline with kerosene for energy, and you will be close.

                  All engines are compared under the term "specific output", and that value follows displacement and B.M.E.P. very closely regardless....

                  Have you ever noticed there is no throttle plate on a diesel engine intake? Full air , all the time.

                  Hmmmm... Otto cycle engines don't work that way......

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CalM View Post
                    One could just look up the descriptions of Otto Cycle engines, and compare with Diesel cycle engines.

                    After that, it's all in nuance.

                    But, TVO is THERMAL VAPORIZING OIL and must have some external source of ignition to continue to make power. (hot carbon will do)

                    The particular fuel used is not really related to the differences, but with continued refinement for the purpose, Gasoline is different from diesel fuel in ways that match well with the different ignition systems. etc.

                    N.B. There is more ENERGY (btus) in a given quantity of diesel fuel compared to gasoline, That's where the increased mileage comes from.

                    Compare gasoline with kerosene for energy, and you will be close.

                    All engines are compared under the term "specific output", and that value follows displacement and B.M.E.P. very closely regardless....

                    Have you ever noticed there is no throttle plate on a diesel engine intake? Full air , all the time.

                    Hmmmm... Otto cycle engines don't work that way......
                    Yes. You are very smart and know the internal combustion engine.

                    I had not thought of it untill you said this

                    "N.B. There is more ENERGY (btus) in a given quantity of diesel fuel compared to gasoline, That's where the increased mileage comes from."

                    It sounds right. Diesel fuel is more versatile than gasoline.

                    The navy, airforce, marines and army run on diesel.

                    Might be called JP-5 or JP-7. Just diesel.

                    Gasoline? Prolly gonna be phased out. Dunno.... JR

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                    • #40
                      No, Gasoline won't be phased out in our lifetime, or for years to come (Unless politics prevails over economics).

                      The lighter hydrocarbons that go into gasoline are a BYPRODUCT of producing Jet A, Kerosene, and Fuel oil (Diesel) etc. The heavy stuff.

                      When demand for Diesel goes UP, Gas prices go down, and vice versa.
                      There is some flexibility in the cracking towers, but there are limits. The term is "fractions" .

                      This present price inversion is something else! Politics .......

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RMinMN View Post
                        Here's an example of what the future might hold. It works in the lab, may not work in real life.

                        https://science.slashdot.org/story/2...t-fossil-fuels
                        That's goofy...... which takes more energy? I'm betting the fuel-based one uses less energy overall, considering all the losses. After all you gotta get the electricity from somewhere, and then convert it to microwaves. Those processes waste energy. And how do you bring that stuff with you?

                        The whole deal sounds like "because we can", rather than a practical approach, unless someone can explain why that is not so.
                        CNC machines only go through the motions

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                        • #42
                          My common rail runs at 20000 psi.

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                          • #43
                            Hear! HEAR!



                            Originally posted by Ringo View Post
                            whats the big deal about 35mpg??
                            the volkswagon rabbit diesel circa 1985 got 55mpg all day long, and it had no electronics. straight up simple design.
                            that was 55mpg 35 years ago.
                            Now inject 35 years of mandated EPA rules, and the engineers cannot beat the old school technology for mpg.
                            If the EPA had left the engineers alone, such that the engineers put their effort into efficiency rather than EPA compliance, the little car may get 100mpg.
                            Please dont start with the dirty smokey diesel rant, modern diesels aren't like that anymore.
                            Besides, if you burn less fuel going in, there must be LESS coming out the exhaust.
                            Paul A.
                            SE Texas

                            And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                            You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                            • #44
                              Diesel or not, I don't care. That is one sweet looking piece of equipment. I have to wonder how he keeps the tracks so clean.

                              With rubber treads he could probably cruise Main street with it and pick up some farm girls on a Saturday night.



                              Originally posted by Willy View Post
                              Not Larry's International TD6, just a shot I grabbed off of the net.
                              Quite a few older Diesel engines like this that started on gasoline and then switched over to diesel when up and running.
                              Larry is probably much more handsome, although this guy's crawler is pretty damn nice.

                              Paul A.
                              SE Texas

                              And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                              You will find that it has discrete steps.

                              Comment

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