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Possible to make a qctp "indexing?

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  • #16
    Both of my lathes came with 4 way tool posts with an indexing system. I used them as 754 did. I'd mount 3 or 4 tools and rotate as needed. The indexing was not very precise, but got the job done. But when I was doing a job, I found myself using the tool that was close to what I needed instead of changing one of the tools to the right one. For instance, I'd use the mounted 1/4 inch HSS boring bar when I should have used the 1/2 inch solid carbide due to the length of the required stickout.

    That is the problem that the QCTP solved. I tend to use the right tool now. While the QCTP does not index, it does rotate and that can be used to your advantage along with a gage to align it. I use a small machinist square to set it at 90 degrees to the compound movement.

    Dan
    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

    Location: SF East Bay.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by 754 View Post
      I guess my lathe is nicer than I thought, it came with 4 way indexable, accurate enough to make a lot of parts to sell...
      Yeah, but the unused tools get in the way, and you have to fiddle with shims. Worst of all is that the unused tools (especially HSS parting blades) are waiting to slice your arm open. A QCTP is a nice upgrade. How many people take off their QCTP to go back to the four-way?

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      • #18
        If you ran a lathe for a few years, and consider shimming a problem.. well...It does not have to be.
        A few tips for thiee who like to learn...approach it logically.
        first you need shims, keep in a box , you need more, make more. YOU NEED to know ToolHeight..mine .875.
        I grab a tool, and I guess at the shim by eye.. hold them together with caliper and measure, don't have to be in working orientation, just stacked under caliper jaws. Say I get .820.. okay add .055. On another I get .790...I add .085.
        its really easy, and fairly fast for me anyway..

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        • #19
          "I believe shims are a poor hack"
          man that is hilarious ... don't ever think of working in a die shop. . Thanks for the chuckle......

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 754 View Post
            If you ran a lathe for a few years, and consider shimming a problem.. well...It does not have to be.
            A few tips for thiee who like to learn...approach it logically.
            first you need shims, keep in a box , you need more, make more. YOU NEED to know ToolHeight..mine .875.
            I grab a tool, and I guess at the shim by eye.. hold them together with caliper and measure, don't have to be in working orientation, just stacked under caliper jaws. Say I get .820.. okay add .055. On another I get .790...I add .085.
            its really easy, and fairly fast for me anyway..
            Thats pretty much what I was doing. I was also changing tools often enough to make it a real PITA. Other factors are that you lose the solidness with every layer in between your tool, the machine, and the work. The fewer connections, the better. I have yet to see a shim setup with the same rigidity as a setup without shims.
            25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 754 View Post
              "I believe shims are a poor hack"
              man that is hilarious ... don't ever think of working in a die shop. . Thanks for the chuckle......
              Say what you will, but I have yet to see a shim setup that is as rigid as a setup without shims. When I had the 4-way, I got oversized tool shanks and milled them all down so the tool tips would sit at the proper height without shimming. It worked much better that way.
              25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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              • #22
                I love my Multifix C on my lathe. No muss, no fuss.
                Location: The Black Forest in Germany

                How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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                • #23
                  A spring and ball detent quickly negates one of the primary features of a QC tool post, repeatability. When I designed my QC tool post repeatability was one of my prime considerations. I would not want to compromise that in any way.



                  Originally posted by johansen View Post
                  Could drill a hole in the bottom for a spring and ball, then fix a plate under it for detents.

                  Three ball plungers and 24 detent holes would make 5 degree divisions.
                  Paul A.
                  SE Texas

                  And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                  You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                  • #24
                    A die shop is one thing. And certainly I have a lot of things around my shop that use shims. But messing with shims to adjust tool height for anything but fixed tools that have flat "no touch" upper sides like form tools rapidly become a fussy thing that few here are willing to work with. I know I'm done with playing with shims. Plus if too many layers are needed I tend to agree with NCF that it won't be as rigid. Burrs, kinks and small particles in a typical shop environment ensure that this will be the case. And few stop to do any more than wipe with fingers I'm sure.

                    And who here has a quick change setup with adjustable height that regularly uses the shimmed tool post instead of the quick change?

                    And like Pinstripe mentioned I found the extra tools poking out got in the way often as not. And they were certainly a injury hazard. Plus without changing to smaller size tools or in some odd cases I don't think I ever got my four way to work with four tools. Just one that had to be set the other way and the four way concept turned quickly to a 2 or 3 way.

                    I do still have my four way and use it fairly often. But it's set up with a few of the shorter special tools that play well together so I can fit four of them without running into clearance issues. Those four live in that post so I don't need to alter shims except on rare occasions since they are also all flat top form tools. One of them is my single point threading cutter.
                    Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                    • #25
                      I think the answer to that question is none; well, very little.

                      Almost anything that can be done by indexing the tool holder can be done better by just grinding or buying a tool at the proper angle. I can't guarantee that there are no parts that absolutely require use of an indexing post, but in years of use, I have not seen a single example. The worst that my non-indexing tool post has cost me is five or ten minutes at the grinder.

                      Can a QC tool post have indexing? Yes, of course it can be made. And such tool posts have been made. And of course, they are expensive.

                      If you are asking if one of the existing tool posts can have indexing added to it, then I would say that anything is possible, but it would be difficult and probably flimsy. I would not do that. It would be easier and better to make special holders or grind the needed tool.



                      Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                      What need does an indexing toolpost satisfy?

                      -D
                      Last edited by Paul Alciatore; 07-07-2020, 06:23 PM.
                      Paul A.
                      SE Texas

                      And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                      You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                      • #26
                        Paul , your answer could be... None in my world..
                        I aint trying to sell an idea or convert anyone, just telling what they can and are used for...pick what what works for you.
                        and the question was asked.. Doozer, did not mention QC
                        So to answer his questions it allowed me to be a **** load of parts, andvearn money, it allowed me too become proficient at tool setting. It allowed me to get on with things and get stuff done.. at very low cost.

                        Funny how what some consider a chore , other's consider as quite simple.., I guess some folks just want to play at things.
                        Last edited by 754; 07-07-2020, 06:33 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                          What need does an indexing toolpost satisfy?

                          -D
                          I don't know? That's what I'm asking. 😁
                          Seems like it wouldn't serve a purpose but some people have done it so?

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                          • #28
                            One use I encountered frequently. If I had a flat tool mounted, like grooving or cut off tool... I would often angle the toolpost 45 ish degrees, break corner as in chamfer, then go back to original setting..

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                            • #29
                              Well, with a QUICK CHANGE post you simply and QUICKLY change to another tool, in this case one with a 45° edge. And then you QUICKLY change back or to a new tool for the next operation. That is THE basic reason for a QC tool post.

                              If you are making a number of identical parts you want to be able to change to different tools while retaining the "numbers" on the cross feed and on any means of location on the carriage (DI on the ways or a DRO). It is not just the ability to change tools quickly, which certainly is a time saving advantage, but it is also being able to return to a given tool and have it in exactly the same relationship to those "numbers" when it is mounted the second, third, fourth, etc. time. That is a great time saver. I would not want to give up that accuracy for the questionable feature of indexing the holders. I simply grind or buy tools with the needed angles. For instance, one tool that I keep permanently mounted in a holder has two 45° cutting edges: it is my edge chamfer tool.

                              My QC tool post has this accuracy along with the fastest possible tool change time. And no tools are needed so I never have to search for a wrench to change a tool holder.

                              Changing the angle of a tool post or of the compound will almost certainly change one or both of those "numbers".

                              My motivation for creating my QC tool post was exactly the time required when making a batch of parts that require different tools. The QC tool post changed that in a fantastic manner. It quickly saved me all the time I used in creating it.



                              Originally posted by 754 View Post
                              One use I encountered frequently. If I had a flat tool mounted, like grooving or cut off tool... I would often angle the toolpost 45 ish degrees, break corner as in chamfer, then go back to original setting..
                              Paul A.
                              SE Texas

                              And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                              You will find that it has discrete steps.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 754 View Post
                                I guess my lathe is nicer than I thought, it came with 4 way indexable, accurate enough to make a lot of parts to sell.
                                If the parts that you sell require six or more tools per part it will be difficult with a 4-way short of gang tooling, you simply can not set more then 6 or so tools without some getting in the way unless the parts are small.
                                This tool post could probably hold another 4 tools, however if the tail stock is in use or the part is much longer all bets are off.
                                From Lange Industries Ltd. The Quickset GT Gang Tool Holder is specially designed to fit the Haas TL-1 and TL-2 CNC lathe 4 station automatic tool turret. Ma...



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