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Possible to make a qctp "indexing?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 754 View Post
    ....and the question was asked.. Doozer, did not mention QC......
    "Possible to make a qctp "indexing?" was the title of this post.

    Yes, a thousand ways.
    And the Dorian Quadradex is quickchange AND indexing.
    Is that not pertinent ?

    -D
    DZER

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    • #32
      Now a MultiFix is made to angle your tools to some index degree,
      but not index multiple tools, like a 4 way.
      So what is being asked??

      -D
      DZER

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      • #33
        PAUL , I am chuckling.
        I looked back at the OP question and cited an example of why you may swing a post... that's it..

        No lack of knowledge here, I have had a lathe since 82 or 83. I went to trade school for a year, and started a machining business 2 years later ran a few decades.. eager to learn, did a lot of tool setting, probably turned out a 100K or more of bushings on a turret lathe. Have used QC a few times, I am familiar with the concept.... just never got one of my own.. which will cost between 1 to 4 K for my lathe..
        we all choose what fits and works for us, usually limited by the wallet..
        Built parts for a truck manufacturer and once even GM .... cant remember ever having a reject...
        so I guess what I did was working
        Last edited by 754; 07-07-2020, 08:38 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by 754 View Post
          .... why you may swing a post... that's it..
          Strippers do it for dollars.
          I suspect a machinist does it for the same reason.

          -Doozer
          DZER

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          • #35
            Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

            Thats pretty much what I was doing. I was also changing tools often enough to make it a real PITA. Other factors are that you lose the solidness with every layer in between your tool, the machine, and the work. The fewer connections, the better. I have yet to see a shim setup with the same rigidity as a setup without shims.
            If you grind tools any old way, you will have a hassle. If you grind them consistently, then the shim can be a block for that size tool. One piece.

            My toolholder has a slot for 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", and 1/2". Since I tend to use brazed or insert, and for HSS I grind to a standard height, it works fine. Unlike what many fussy Home Shop Harry types think, the centering does not have always to be perfect, either. It does for some things, cutoff, or for facing a solid, etc, but for much work there is a range that works and gets the job done.
            CNC machines only go through the motions.

            Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
            Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
            Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
            I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
            Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Bented View Post

              If the parts that you sell require six or more tools per part it will be difficult with a 4-way short of gang tooling, you simply can not set more then 6 or so tools without some getting in the way unless the parts are small.
              4 way posts are cheap and easy to make. They also mount / un-mount quickly with the turn of a nut. I can envision having two of them set up for a 6 tool / 6 step process.

              Dan
              At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

              Location: SF East Bay.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                If you grind tools any old way, you will have a hassle. If you grind them consistently, then the shim can be a block for that size tool. One piece.

                My toolholder has a slot for 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", and 1/2". Since I tend to use brazed or insert, and for HSS I grind to a standard height, it works fine. Unlike what many fussy Home Shop Harry types think, the centering does not have always to be perfect, either. It does for some things, cutoff, or for facing a solid, etc, but for much work there is a range that works and gets the job done.
                Thats actually why I standardized on 3/8 HSS bits, I could leave the top flat and grind the profile and relief. But I'm slowly transitioning to carbide inserts with 1/2" shanks. I'll have to disagree about the centering, Everythng works better when tools are setup properly.
                25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                • #38
                  I went on at some length about how to ensure that the QCTP would be accurate and consistent for centering if it were adapted to indexing in my first post to this thread.

                  I defend this idea of the extra steps because most folks that test this sort of thing value the consistency of removing and replacing their tool holders on their QCTP's to very tight tolerances. The bragging seems to start at around a couple of tenths. But I think most would be happy if the holders seated on the main body to within a thou for all but the most demanding work.

                  So if the indexing can't match or exceed the thou or so for consistency of the tool holders then what is the point of indexing a QCTP if it will simply cause a loss of tool accuracy? After all isn't allowing the holding of positional accuracy the whole point of the indexing?

                  Of course it depends on what level of accuracy is needed. But assuming that some will want to be able to hold to a couple of thousandths or less for diameters on at least some more critical steps is there any point to adding indexing if it can't do this level of accuracy? Each of us will have to answer that one to our own needs and expectations.
                  Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                  • #39
                    If you are going to go through all the pain of accurately positioning tools on a 4 way for some given set of dimensions
                    and you get jacked up on center height, shims, tool grind, and you want production,,,,,,,,
                    Get a DRO, loose the compound, and pre-set all your toolholders with X and Z coordinates in the DRO.
                    Want to jiggle jack around or make some money with your lathe ? If you don't want to make money
                    then none of this matters.

                    --Doozer
                    DZER

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                    • #40
                      Food for thought...

                      Keith
                      __________________________
                      Just one project too many--that's what finally got him...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
                        ........ I'll have to disagree about the centering, Everythng works better when tools are setup properly.
                        Point being that if you are off a few thou, the tools cut fine. OK, if you are talking a LOT of error, well sure. but you probably have a 20 thou window with most work in the inch and above diameter range where things are fine and work no problem.

                        If you go to a 0.187 workpiece, that is gonna take a good centered cutter even for general OD turning..
                        CNC machines only go through the motions.

                        Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                        Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                        Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                        I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                        Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Allright Doozer, i will dig out some pieces I have made, show some pics on here. .
                          then you can tell us all how you would do this on manual machinery... because I really what to see someone make these things with off the shelf tooling and a dro..

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                            Point being that if you are off a few thou, the tools cut fine. OK, if you are talking a LOT of error, well sure. but you probably have a 20 thou window with most work in the inch and above diameter range where things are fine and work no problem.

                            If you go to a 0.187 workpiece, that is gonna take a good centered cutter even for general OD turning..
                            Gotcha, no disagreement about that. 20 thou yeah, it would bug me. A few thou not so much. Regardless of which type of tooling system the one thing I want more than anything is to have everything on the proper height and repeatable and rigid.
                            25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                            • #44
                              What's amusing on here, is most folks think they can't live without a QCTP, and I agree... they are quick and handy..
                              but when you mention QC toolholder for a manual mill spindle, most folks on here say they have no use for one, and proceed to tell you how fast their powered draw bar is..
                              Next thing we care gonna hear is that someone on here can change their QC lathe toolfaster than you can change to next tool on a turret lathe.. ....
                              Last edited by 754; 07-08-2020, 01:34 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by 754 View Post
                                What's amusing on here, is most folks think they can't live without a QCTP, and I agree... they are quick and handy..
                                but when you mention QC toolholder for a mill spindle, most folks on here say they have no use for one, and proceed to tell you how fast their powered draw bar is..
                                Nicest QC tool holder on a mill, that I ever used, was on a Haas VF-3. Push a button, boom the tool holder pops out.
                                I kinda doubt many guys here have a VF-3 in their home shop -- they start in the six figures last I looked.
                                25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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