Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT: The day's that the RAF nuked Japan.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • OT: The day's that the RAF nuked Japan.

    Apparently, according to a video I saw yesterday, the RAF was originally going to be the ones to drop the "bomb" on Japan. The only US bomber that was capable of carrying the bombs was the B-29, still in development and it couldn't do it. It had two bomb bays and neither was big enough to fit the bombs into. The RAF was brought into the mix since the Lancaster bomber was capable of carrying the bombs. The Lancs did not have the range to do the job so several where converted into mid air refueller aircraft to give the Lancs the range. A special squadron of the RAF was set up and trained to do the job but Boeing designed a new version of the 29 with a larger bomb bay. These where the Silver plate B-29's and in the end they did drop the bombs. The RAF planes where kept on standby in case there was a problem with the 29's doing the job. Apparently when General Groves found out about the plan to use the RAF planes he just about stroked out 🤬. This has been kept a secret until recently and details are still sketchy, the Brits still don't talk about it much.

    Ain't history funny.😲
    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

    Southwestern Ontario. Canada

  • #2
    The B-29 Superfortress project was the most expensive and and difficult project during the war. It cost far more to get the B29 fleet flying than it did to build the bomb. The engines alone were a huge task to undertake. It was understood that the plane would carry a heavier payload farther any anything before it. However what those involved in the project didn't know was the War Department had very special plans for the B29. Which is why they had Lt General Bill Knudsen (prior to the war Knudsen was president of General Motors) driving them hard to make the project work.
    Mike
    Central Ohio, USA

    Comment


    • #3
      I just watched the video last night. Never heard of that before. I also watched a vid about the Brits doing their first nuclear reactor. Apparently the political agenda nearly caused Britain to blow itself off the map. The same happened with the Manhattan project. They, or we, are lucky that a saner mind stepped in and prevented a major disaster on home soil.

      In a sense we have the same agenda going on today- powers that be catering to their self-interests while the world comes perilously close to a meltdown. Business as usual.
      I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

      Comment


      • #4
        The bombing, particularly on Hiroshima, was probably not necessary, and was another political decision.

        https://www.npr.org/2020/08/06/89959...75-years-later

        https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...y-bear-witness

        https://www.democracynow.org/2020/8/...bomb_hollywood

        https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

        http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
        Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
        USA Maryland 21030

        Comment


        • #5
          Hindsight is always 20/20. From what I've read, they calculated that over 100,000 American G I's would die in the initial invasion of the Japanese main islands. The resistance would have been ferocious. I'm probably biased, but my father was a bomber pilot with the RCAF, was missing in action on his 26th mission, when I was 6 months old.

          Comment


          • #6
            My father was an artillery officer who was part of the invasions of Leyte and then Okinawa. Everyone was exhausted, sick of war, and trying to prepare themselves for an invasion of Japan. Then the war was suddenly, unexpectedly over, and most in the Pacific theater eventually returned home.

            The senior commander of allied forces on Okinawa, Lieutenant General Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. was killed a few days before the conquest of the island, the highest-ranking US officer killed by enemy fire in WWII.

            Comment


            • #7
              It’s always astounded me that B-29 was most expensive project of the war. First glance seems to just be an evolution of the B-17, but apparently the pressurization, size, range speed and altitude increases made it exponentially tougher.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SVS View Post
                It’s always astounded me that B-29 was most expensive project of the war. First glance seems to just be an evolution of the B-17, but apparently the pressurization, size, range speed and altitude increases made it exponentially tougher.
                Engines were the biggest single issue. They were an issue due to cooling, for which air had to get to the back cylinders. This, and issues with overheating causing valve problems, plus maximum weight loads for the aircraft, requiring maximum output from all engines to get off the ground, really made the overheating and engine failures an issue. A failure meant the aircraft crashing on takeoff with a full load of fuel and bombs.

                Alao, apparently the magnesium alloy of the crankcases was quite flammable, and a fire would melt the wing spar in a short time, as it was up near steel welding temperatures.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PStechPaul View Post
                  The bombing, particularly on Hiroshima, was probably not necessary, and was another political decision.
                  -Nope. That sort of thing is long-after-the-fact revisionism, with no little bit of personal anti-war bias to boot. The decision was never "whether or not to drop the bomb". Many long months before it was even tested, it was more of a question of "how soon can we do this?"

                  Like it or not, it was very simple wargaming. On one hand, we have a land invasion of the Home Islands. Facing millions of people, probably a protracted guerilla insurgency, and bloody hand-to-hand fighting, AND the huge logistical chain of moving hundreds of thousands of soldiers, and millions of tons of material, halfway around the world. Best estimates put it at 1.5 million dead and 200,000 American casualties.

                  The US minted five hundred thousand Purple Hearts in anticipation of the forthcoming battle.We're still using that supply today.

                  Or on the other hand, drop two very large bombs, maybe kill 100,000 to 150,000, but end the war and save well over a million.

                  It was, as they say in today's parlance, a "no brainer". There was never any real debate.

                  Doc.
                  Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There is nothing worse than 70 years later "Monday morning Quarterbacking" . all you kids that don't remember WWII should just shut the hell up . :-(
                    ...lew...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was born just after the war was over. Spent a couple of years in Japan in the 70's. Never met a single Japanese person who was upset over the bombs.

                      Usual comment was "That's the fortunes of war". At least with young adults that I interfaced with.

                      Mike

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ohio Mike View Post
                        It was understood that the plane would carry a heavier payload farther any anything before it.
                        Yes and no. The B-29 had a nominal bomb load of 20,000 #, the Lanc's was 14000 # Nominal, in peace time up to 17,000 for war missions but could carry the 22,000 grand slam bombs which the 29 could not carry because of the bomb bay design.The B-29 did have a longer range but the Lancs range could be extended just as they do today.

                        You Americans forget it wouldn't be just you in the fight. Anzac's, Canadians, Indians and the Brits were all going to be joining in as soon as Adolph was taken care of. My father was a radio operator on an RCAF Lanc and his aircraft was tasked to "Tiger Force", the British Empires bombing contribution to the final invasion of Japan. There is a good chance he wouldn't have made it back from that and I wouldn't be here so personally I'm glad they dropped the damn bombs. The Japs may whine about how hard done by they where by the blasts but don't forget what they did to everyone else. Millions died for there ambitions.
                        Last edited by loose nut; 08-07-2020, 09:57 AM.
                        The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                        Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                        Southwestern Ontario. Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by darryl View Post
                          I just watched the video last night. Never heard of that before. I also watched a vid about the Brits doing their first nuclear reactor. Apparently the political agenda nearly caused Britain to blow itself off the map. The same happened with the Manhattan project. They, or we, are lucky that a saner mind stepped in and prevented a major disaster on home soil.

                          In a sense we have the same agenda going on today- powers that be catering to their self-interests while the world comes perilously close to a meltdown. Business as usual.
                          The original design of the reactor had it air cooled with the exhaust going up a stake and out into the atmosphere. Very highly radioactive exhaust, it would have made the rest of Europe glow in the dark. Fortunately better heads prevailed and a special filter system was installed to prevent that, if it worked! After it caught fire I don't remember what happened to it. Anyone know if it was repaired or shut down. It was Britain's only breeder reactor for making fissionable materials for more bombs, at the time.
                          The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                          Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                          Southwestern Ontario. Canada

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep, the US spent a lot of time and money developing the B-29, then crash landed some in the USSR and they copied it as the Tupolev TU-4, which was in production 2 years after they got their hands on the originals.

                            With regards to dropping the bomb, if you've got an extra 17.5 hours I'd highly recommend listening to Dan Carlin's 4-part series Supernova in the East. He goes into great depth on Japan's rise to power at that time, their colonial aspirations, and the mindset of the leadership and the people and how that influenced the various actions taken up to that point. The war with Japan was a close thing that hinged on a few very key battles, and even with the other Allies switching focus to the Pacific taking the home islands would have been a terrible and costly battle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire the reactor is still there, shut down, and won't be decommissioned until 2037. Makes interesting reading!

                              Ian
                              All of the gear, no idea...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X