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Need to flatten thinwall pipe ends for structural use. Ideas on methods?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post
    I used that rationale to justify buying an engine hoist to load and unload that little SB 9" I bought. Because it was a floormount model, I'm guessing 800 to a 1000 lbs from the way it set the trailer down.
    I'm betting your cabinet model is around 850 give or take a bit. My horizontal drive model was right on at 625. I unloaded it from the truck and got it in the house with a 2-wheel dolly from HF, the blue heavy-duty one.. Planned each movement ahead and did everything on the count of three, by myself. Got it all setup on the bench etc. A chain hoist is on my "dreams come true" list. Also a place to hang it.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
      I like the operator's metatarsal protecting sandals


      I hadn't even gotten to the second guy operating the foot switches, barefoot yet.
      -paul

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      • #33
        Well, got some time and dug out a horizontal cutter that I thought would do the job on the die. I need to look closely at the part and the die to figure put how much clearance for material I need on the flattening, depth wise and material spreading wise.

        The tool so far, not even cut off the stock yet (actually, the pic is before bringing the cut all the way to where I wanted it where the first pass stopped). Gave the Lewis a good workout to hog this 0.75 wide x 0.75 deep groove in the die......



        The result so far in terms of squeezing the EMT with the die in essentially as-pictured condition. I think it would have worked better, except that the sharp edges were catching and holding the EMT, not letting it slide down. Easing them should help, back to where the deformation of the EMT starts.

        Actually, although I thought it might be better looking, it isn't that bad for a first test of a die cavity that I am not done with.

        That EMT is pretty strong, and takes either a BFH, or some serious tonnage, the one ton arbor press was not up to it. I need to ease the edges, and cut clearance for the flattened part once I figure out how much at what place.








        Originally posted by pb57 View Post
        Why ask if all you want to do is pick apart answers you get. If it was me I would use the 50 ton press I made and if I didn't have that I would use the hammer and bench and it would still look good. Have you ever done simple projects like this before?
        Ain't using shop equipment just, like, real easy and stuff? The machines do all the work, you know.... Why you making it sound so difficult? All the youtube folks do things like snapping their fingers........ What could go wrong?
        Last edited by J Tiers; 08-24-2020, 03:34 PM.
        1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

        Keep eye on ball.
        Hashim Khan

        If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

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        • #34
          Wow, looks nice! Agreed on easing the edges. I had a somewhat similar task at work just using flat dies in a hydraulic ironworker (fabricating handrails for OSHA)

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          • #35
            I'm trying to decide on just how to ease them.... rounding, tapering, etc. It seems that they should make it as easy as possible for the metal to go where it is wanted.

            Drawing dies get rounded, but this is not the same, the metal is getting pushed and will swell outward a bit, where for a drawing die, the metal is being pulled and will naturally pull around a smoothly rounded edge if the radius is right, and lubed up well..

            I need to look some more at the test piece and decide where to take out the material so as to allow the flattening as well as the forming of the flat in the right place and oriented correctly..
            1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

            If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

            Comment


            • #36
              Pretty sure J's question has been answered so I hope no one minds if I redirect just a hair.

              It would be cool if someone made couplers/connectors for conduit, like a T or elbow etc. would make a cool
              erector set. And yea, I'm fishing for someone to say ... yea, right here !!
              John Titor, when are you.

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              • #37
                Not really likely to see a T, that is not a thing that would ever be used electrically. and as someone else pointed out (perhaps a tad "abruptly"), EMT has a limited structural capability, so it may not be seen as a type of tubing that needs such connectors. I could easily be wrong, but have personally never seen any structural system using EMT.

                That said, I see far thinner tubing used in products, case in point being a folding patio cover we have, which was bent a bit by a strong windstorm recently. If the structural elements had been EMT, the structure would likely not have been damaged. EMT is around 0.045" wall, and the "structural" elements of the cover may have been 0.020" or so wall thickness.
                1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                Comment


                • #38
                  No, I take your point Jerry, definitely wouldn't have an electrical use. But it would
                  be something that you could take a bunch of conduit and make a little table or book stand, whatever.

                  People do it all the time with PVC .. just saying it might be cool if you could do it with conduit.

                  I have actually made couplers AND T's welding up lathed to size steel rod. But I wouldn't want to
                  have to make a bunch of them.
                  John Titor, when are you.

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                  • #39
                    That die is looking good. A little time with a die grinder to radius the edges and done!

                    I've been successful so far using aluminum for the dies and compressing them with my cheap 20 ton H-frame hydraulic press.

                    Here's a setup I made to compress the end of 3/4" EMT to form a slip fit joint. It works very well.

                    The compression dies are made from scrap, thus the extra holes;

                    Click image for larger version

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                    This die creates the "dimple". The generous radius keeps the EMT in good shape.
                    The steel angles are welded to a collar that slips over the ram on my press. The screws
                    allow different forms to be held;

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Example of the dimpler arrangement. First I dimple the EMT, then compress it
                    with the aluminum dies;

                    Click image for larger version

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                    The finished joint. A screw or two provides a very secure joint;

                    Click image for larger version

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                    Attached Files

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                    • #40
                      Very nice and your set-up looks to produce consistent shape and size ... good job


                      Joe B

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post



                        Ain't using shop equipment just, like, real easy and stuff? The machines do all the work, you know....
                        Very nice squish. Looks like the ends of some anti-sway bars I have used. No stress risers and sealed up tight to boot.

                        Thanks for sharing. JR

                        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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                        • #42
                          When in South Africa in the late 70'ies, I remember that the metal electric conduits of 20 and 25mm had threaded fittings. There were bends and Tees. The Tees had a little cover that helped the routing of the wires in the pretended direction. You could use a tool to put a radius on the pipe or use some wide radius curved accessory with threaded connections. We also used the pipe for all sorts of projects other than electrical.
                          Helder Ferreira
                          Setubal, Portugal

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                          • #43
                            Eased the edges, and lowered the area to accommodate the flattened part, but I am not yet happy with the results. The EMT is so strong that it is difficult to flatten in a vise, and very difficult to get formed in the die. The conduit flattens in the wrong places, and the forces are considerable.

                            I think I need to ease it more, and allow more space for the tubing to widen out.

                            So I am taking a side-trip to set up my Port-o-Power as a press. I got a frame with it that ought to stand up to some force, since it was what the thing was used with. The Port-o-Power cylinder has an inch of 1 1/2-16 thread on it for attaching fixtures, which apparently can be used as a mount, so I can make a flange and then mount that to the frame. it will take the whole 4 tons, more than I expect the frame can, but I don't think it will take 4 tons to squash EMT.

                            Noitoen:
                            The threaded material is what is called "conduit" in the US. There is a lighter material that is also threaded, known as "IMC:: "Intermediate metal conduit", and a light tubing "EMT": "Electrical Metallic Tubing". The EMT is what I am looking at, wall thickness about 1.1 mm. The "IMC" is not widely used for normal purposes.
                            Last edited by J Tiers; 08-26-2020, 01:47 AM.
                            1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                            Keep eye on ball.
                            Hashim Khan

                            If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Since I found that the die needs more pressure, althugh maybe not a lot more, I decided to adapt the Port-o-Power to the frame it came with from the previous owner, in a new way. So I made a 1 1/2-16 nut , secured the nut to the top of the frame, with a clearance hole through for the cylinder to pass through. The frame is not good for all 8000 lb, but will do this, the PO used it for material testing at a couple tons.

                              The nut, faced, bored, and threaded, just trimming down the plugs I inserted into some side threaded holes so the inside could be threaded without an interrupted cut, which never goes well on a small lathe.


                              The nut, with the mounting holes having transfer screws in them to mark the drill holes (and bounce marks from the interrupted cut)


                              Mounted, with cylinder


                              Mounted nut from below. I can face off a fair amount of it if any rod tooling does not fit. The first bit is not even threaded and the threads on the cylinder do not go that far anyway.


                              Sometime when I get a round-tuit, or need to, I can move the nut and cylinder to a new and better frame. This one should do for now.

                              It is welded of flat bar and 12" or so channel iron.
                              Last edited by J Tiers; 08-27-2020, 04:58 PM.
                              1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The die, even as -extended, is just not doing the crimp. The flat ends up at an angle to the axis of the pipe, and that is just plain not acceptable. The crimp is GOOD, but it is at the wrong angle.

                                I probably should not have tried to do a single piece die, and ought to have set up a clamping piece, with the pipe held in it, and then had the die come down on it.

                                At this point I need to evaluate whether to bother continuing to throw time at this idea, or whether to drop it. Solving the angle issue may not be a possibility with this design.

                                I seem to be at the point where the "sunk cost" trap appears, and I may just need to use angle (which I do not have in stock at suitable lengths) instead.
                                1601 2137 5683 1002 1437

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan

                                If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

                                Comment

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