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  • #31
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    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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    • #32
      Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
      12-point double hex dimension W:


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      The W dimension is for the HEX and on a 10mm drive will be 10mm. To fit a square 10mm you will need 12,2mm because you have to "jump" one point, so, 1/2" being 12.7mm would be the best fit.
      Helder Ferreira
      Setubal, Portugal

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      • #33
        You could have taken a 20mm or so round stock and set it up in the mill and milled a 10mm slot to double the length that you need for the depth of the socket. Cut it in half length wise and then cut it diagonally across the 10mm or grind it down on a belt grinder. So now you have your two sides with a V in them. Because you don't weld then press them into a bored hole and be done. Quick and strong.
        Location: The Black Forest in Germany

        How to become a millionaire: Start out with 10 million and take up machining as a hobby!

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        • #34
          OK guys. :-) Lets fergit it .before someone throws a punch :-) Sorry I brought it up. It did bring up some interesting points though. Thanks for all the ideas.
          ...lew...

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Lew Hartswick View Post
            Gave up on buying something and spent about 4 hours on the Bridgeport ...
            That $7.51 socket sounds SO much less expensive to me!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by AntonLargiader View Post

              That $7.51 socket sounds SO much less expensive to me!
              I don't really understand why people object to using 12-pt sockets.... I was driving taps with them a long time ago, no problems. And plenty of other square ends too, such as plumbing fittings and square-head bolts.

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              • #37
                Break out your CAD program and draw a hexagon with 1/2" across the flats. Then copy it with the same center but rotated 30 degrees. Now you have the 12 points (a 12 point star) with some extra, interior line segments which you can ignore. Then draw a square using every third point and see how long one side of that square is.

                It will be a square, but it will NOT be a 1/2" square. It will be somewhat smaller than that. There is no way that you can fit a 1/2" square inside that 12 point star figure.

                This will scale up or down so it will be true for any size hexagon - any size hex head bolt vs the same size square head bolt.

                You can not buy a 10 mm, 12 point socket and have it fit on a 10 mm square head. 7 or 8 mm, perhaps, but 10 mm, NO!



                Originally posted by MattiJ View Post

                Isn’t 12-point also measured same way as 6- point ie accross the flats? 1/2” 12-point fits to 1/2” hex head. So should be same size for hex and square.
                Corners can slightly bind with the combo but actual socket often have sort of corner relief so even that is unlikely issue.
                Paul A.
                SE Texas

                Make it fit.
                You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

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                • #38
                  If I said 14 mm, that was wrong. The actual size of 12 point socket that will fit a 10 mm, square head is indeed 12.25 mm. But it is close to the 1/2" size (12.7 mm) which has been discussed.

                  I doubt that anyone makes that metric size so the 1/2" sounds like a possible choice.

                  Don't know where I could have got 14 mm from.



                  Originally posted by MattiJ View Post

                  Paul says 14mm, you say 12.2mm and I'd say 10mm probably fits...

                  Triple square(XZN) is measured in different way but it is not same as 12-point (double hex) socket
                  Paul A.
                  SE Texas

                  Make it fit.
                  You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                    Break out your CAD program and draw a hexagon with 1/2" across the flats. Then copy it with the same center but rotated 30 degrees. Now you have the 12 points (a 12 point star) with some extra, interior line segments which you can ignore. Then draw a square using every third point and see how long one side of that square is.

                    It will be a square, but it will NOT be a 1/2" square. It will be somewhat smaller than that. There is no way that you can fit a 1/2" square inside that 12 point star figure.

                    This will scale up or down so it will be true for any size hexagon - any size hex head bolt vs the same size square head bolt.

                    You can not buy a 10 mm, 12 point socket and have it fit on a 10 mm square head. 7 or 8 mm, perhaps, but 10 mm, NO!

                    Yeah, I visualized it wrong inside my head. Corners bind more than I thought. I wouldn't probably pass the block test for 3 year old kids
                    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Lew Hartswick View Post
                      OK guys. :-) Lets fergit it .before someone throws a punch :-) .
                      Forging the socket is another good option.......

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                        If I said 14 mm, that was wrong. The actual size of 12 point socket that will fit a 10 mm, square head is indeed 12.25 mm. But it is close to the 1/2" size (12.7 mm) which has been discussed.

                        I doubt that anyone makes that metric size so the 1/2" sounds like a possible choice.

                        Don't know where I could have got 14 mm from.


                        Well, I actually went and did it. You're right of course -- the nearest I have to 10mm square is 3/8 square which is ~20 thou small. A 10mm would not do it, but 11mm worked fine with room to spare.

                        My point being, the concept of using a 12-point socket to turn a square is still valid and is commonly used by mechanics to turn taps on tight quarters such as under a car.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                          Well, I actually went and did it. You're right of course -- the nearest I have to 10mm square is 3/8 square which is ~20 thou small. A 10mm would not do it, but 11mm worked fine with room to spare.

                          My point being, the concept of using a 12-point socket to turn a square is still valid and is commonly used by mechanics to turn taps on tight quarters such as under a car.
                          11mm did it because the tips of the tap square are rounded and fit. A sharp tip would require the 12mm
                          Helder Ferreira
                          Setubal, Portugal

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Noitoen View Post

                            11mm did it because the tips of the tap square are rounded and fit. A sharp tip would require the 12mm
                            Quite many sockets also have extra clearance in the corners. Not as profound as in many 6-point sockets but still.
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                            Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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                            • #44
                              In situations like this it does no harm to just reach into the old tool box and try things. Probably faster than all the discussion and math/CAD work.

                              And if it works, it works. I am somewhat surprised that the 11mm worked but you can't argue with success.
                              Paul A.
                              SE Texas

                              Make it fit.
                              You can't win and there IS a penalty for trying!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                                In situations like this it does no harm to just reach into the old tool box and try things. Probably faster than all the discussion and math/CAD work.

                                And if it works, it works. I am somewhat surprised that the 11mm worked but you can't argue with success.
                                I think its because the specs for socket and wrench openings are much, much "looser" than many would suspect -- especially with "bargain bin" sockets, they can fit some strange things. And also as someone else noted, the corners of the square were not sharp.

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