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Timing Belt Drive for Logan 200-210 Opinions

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  • #46
    I will update once it's in Shop after Harvest is done.I'm familiar with the bearing Brand,New Departure they were the original bearing in these Logan's.I salvaged some peices from a early 50's Grain Storage Elevator that had some used 2" ID New Departure bearing.I installed one on a Grain Dryer that lasted 20 yrs and over 10,000 hrs,I quizzed my Breaing Guy if he could get me some of those,he laughed and said they quit manufacturing bearing before we were born lol!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by DS_park View Post
      Logan Bearings - you asked earlier.

      Bad bearings in a Logan 200 type can turn into a very expensive fix. .If my memory is correct J Tiers has some experience in this matter..

      .............
      Oh, that was a true cluster f***. It's almost amusing now, looking back at it. Longish story............

      Apparently even the Logan folks did not know what was up with the old stuff at that point (this was a LONG time ago). So I bought a bearing from them to replace the one that cane with the machine, which was lumpy and did not clean up (and I knew less way back then). IIRC it was north of a hundred bucks, how far so I do not recall, I bought some other small stuff and the total was near $200.

      Well, they sent me one with a C3 clearance, but, not knowing, and assuming all was well, I just put it in. Well, it turns out that by accident, the thing went together with some "inadvertent preload" due to something I did, so it worked OK.

      Some time later, I acquired a dividing head, and decided to make a gear to replace the pulley pinion which was missing most of a tooth, and was noisy using back gear. I took apart the headstock, and carefully put it back together exactly correctly.

      Hah.... That undid the preload, and the machine would not take a cut without a ferocious chatter. Nothing worked, it just chattered.

      So I looked at the "double-row internally preloaded" nose bearing....it had a clearance corresponding with a C3 spec. Not only was it not preloaded, it was actually loose. Obviously not going to work

      Well I asked about it on the Logan email group, and got flamed, and nearly tossed off. Everyone said, "you idiot, you put it together wrong and wore out the bearing, and now you are complaining, you are a _____________ and should take up knitting".

      Well, them dudes wuz the idjits.... bearings do not "wear out" unless you get abrasive dirt in them, they fail by metal fatigue. I just wrote off the group as being so bunged up it was useless, and got a deep groove bearing with a snap ring. I used the Logan itself to clear a machined spot for the snap ring on the back of the headstock, and set up the bearing (#3 in the headstock) to preload the spindle, using a bunch of Belleville washers. That worked fine and it has been working nicely ever since. No problem with chatter except in extreme circumstances, and parting off works well. Preload was about 100 lbf.

      Well, then I sent that info to several folks who had also had the same problem. Some at least actually did it, and it worked for them also.

      Logan quit selling ANY bearings for the model 200, as it was obvious to them that things were not right (they never credited any of us even a fraction of our payment, however). Later they began selling two grades of bearings, differing in precision, but apparently all preloaded as was required.

      I think that the better one costs well over $200, and the "cheaper" one is close to $200, may be higher now. I still have the old original, and have tried cleaning it, but no success. Never used naptha, tried plenty of other things. Not sure the original is worth cleaning, it has been pulled off the spindle, and that may have indented something, dunno.
      Last edited by J Tiers; 09-15-2020, 11:11 PM.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

        Oh, that was a true cluster f***. It's almost amusing now, looking back at it. Longish story............

        Apparently even the Logan folks did not know what was up with the old stuff at that point (this was a LONG time ago). So I bought a bearing from them to replace the one that cane with the machine, which was lumpy and did not clean up (and I knew less way back then). IIRC it was north of a hundred bucks, how far so I do not recall, I bought some other small stuff and the total was near $200.

        Well, they sent me one with a C3 clearance, but, not knowing, and assuming all was well, I just put it in. Well, it turns out that by accident, the thing went together with some "inadvertent preload" due to something I did, so it worked OK.

        Some time later, I acquired a dividing head, and decided to make a gear to replace the pulley pinion which was missing most of a tooth, and was noisy using back gear. I took apart the headstock, and carefully put it back together exactly correctly.

        Hah.... That undid the preload, and the machine would not take a cut without a ferocious chatter. Nothing worked, it just chattered.

        So I looked at the "double-row internally preloaded" nose bearing....it had a clearance corresponding with a C3 spec. Not only was it not preloaded, it was actually loose. Obviously not going to work

        Well I asked about it on the Logan email group, and got flamed, and nearly tossed off. Everyone said, "you idiot, you put it together wrong and wore out the bearing, and now you are complaining, you are a _____________ and should take up knitting".

        Well, them dudes wuz the idjits.... bearings do not "wear out" unless you get abrasive dirt in them, they fail by metal fatigue. I just wrote off the group as being so bunged up it was useless, and got a deep groove bearing with a snap ring. I used the Logan itself to clear a machined spot for the snap ring on the back of the headstock, and set up the bearing (#3 in the headstock) to preload the spindle, using a bunch of Belleville washers. That worked fine and it has been working nicely ever since. No problem with chatter except in extreme circumstances, and parting off works well. Preload was about 100 lbf.

        Well, then I sent that info to several folks who had also had the same problem. Some at least actually did it, and it worked for them also.

        Logan quit selling ANY bearings for the model 200, as it was obvious to them that things were not right (they never credited any of us even a fraction of our payment, however). Later they began selling two grades of bearings, differing in precision, but apparently all preloaded as was required.

        I think that the better one costs well over $200, and the "cheaper" one is close to $200, may be higher now. I still have the old original, and have tried cleaning it, but no success. Never used naptha, tried plenty of other things. Not sure the original is worth cleaning, it has been pulled off the spindle, and that may have indented something, dunno.
        I talked to my Bearing Guy( been dealing with him since 1986) and asked about these style of bearing,I had no demensions but he said they have sold that style of precision bearing to other Lathe Customers in the past.He could not guarantee they would be available but thought odds were good.

        Comment


        • #49
          If the Logan has the same flat pulleys as the South Bend 9 put a serpentine belt on it. I did on my SB9 and it is a wonder. You can use either side of the belt for less or more traction and adjust the tension for more or less slip. When the tension is tight on my SB it will not slip. Its the best thing I did as it will run inserts now with no problem. That old leather thing is a thing of the past. And no pulley changing or cog problems.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by vectorwarbirds View Post
            If the Logan has the same flat pulleys as the South Bend 9 put a serpentine belt on it. I did on my SB9 and it is a wonder. You can use either side of the belt for less or more traction and adjust the tension for more or less slip. When the tension is tight on my SB it will not slip. Its the best thing I did as it will run inserts now with no problem. That old leather thing is a thing of the past. And no pulley changing or cog problems.

            I will give that a try,leaning toward DC motor for power source.

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            • #51
              I did the serpentine belt mod. Works great. A future upgrade will be a 3 Phase motor with VFD or DC motor.

              Try a web search for "Conrad Hoffman Logan 211"

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by vectorwarbirds View Post
                If the Logan has the same flat pulleys as the South Bend 9 put a serpentine belt on it. I did on my SB9 and it is a wonder. You can use either side of the belt for less or more traction and adjust the tension for more or less slip. When the tension is tight on my SB it will not slip. Its the best thing I did as it will run inserts now with no problem. That old leather thing is a thing of the past. And no pulley changing or cog problems.
                Yes, as several have said in various posts, the rubber covered belts are quite good. Better grip than average leather, but the bigger deal is more belt tension possible. With 1" wide pulleys, small diameter, and being well short of 1000 fpm on the belt, you need good torque (belt grip) to get decent power. The 1000 fpm and 33ft lb torque would get you 1 HP.

                The middle step is abut 4", maybe (I have not measured it recently and don't recall), that is 1 foot per pulley turn. So at 240 rpm, that is about a quarter HP at 33 ft lb. I can get at least 50 ft lb, with the rubber covered canvas I use, so that brings the power transmission to 0.37 HP, which is about the motor power I have on the machine.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Comment

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