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My Jet 3 In One Shake Rattle and Won't Roll

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  • My Jet 3 In One Shake Rattle and Won't Roll

    Inspired by the last couple post I've read about choosing between different makes of Chinese machinery.

    It's already been a couple years since I went through this disappointing ordeal. I thought I would get one of those three in one sheet metal machines before the new tariffs kicked in. I looked at several different makes. About the only difference I could see was the color that they were painted and the price. So I decided to go with Jet. Why ???? well back in the early 80's I bought a 15 ton press made by them. I still use it all the time and have never had a problem with it. It's well made and the casting are very clean and nicely made.

    I found my best deal through a machinery dealer, shipping was included. So I ordered it.

    When I opened the crate the first thing that hit me was the smell of fresh smelling paint, like it was still air drying. It probably still was. After I assembled the flimsy sheet metal stand that I got with it I proceeded to clean the machine up. This thing was filthy. They spray it down with some light weight oil like WD and then I swear they either store these in their foundry or place them directly in front of their grinders. I washed this thing off for over an hour with solvent. My rags were black. Never saw anything so dirty, at least not anything new.

    After I got it cleaned up I mounted it to the flimsy stand. First issue..... the holes in the stand didn't quite line up with the holes in the base of the machine. A few minutes with a rat tail file and I cured that. I'm already not liking this.

    Being anxious to see how this thing works I grabbed one of the chrome handles from the crate and began to mount it on the machine. Next thing that happened was I'm seeing red all over the the handle. I sliced the palm of my hand on the cheap flaking chrome plating. Now I'm really starting to not like this.

    After I taped up my hand I mounted the handle, just the one side for now as I wanted to check for dangerous flaking chrome on the other one.

    So I though I would give this thing a whirl and run it through a cycle. I pulled down on that handle with everything I had and it wouldn't budge. Now I;m looking for a pin or something to disengage, there are none. After seeing how this thing operate I started looking for other causes. What I found was that top shear blade was hitting the edge of the bottom blade. OK, that makes sense so how do I cure the problem. Well in the back there is a large bolt that puts pressure against the casting forcing the two blades to come together, it was so tight they were binding. But loosening it didn't help much. Now the pictures start, got your popcorn ready ???

    This shows how the two blades are chewing each other up. From the looks of them they aren't very hard.

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    So loosening didn't help much. The next thing I found was the elongated slot and the bolt hole didn't line up very well, it was also binding there.

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    After I got things loosened up I was able to cycle the machine. I made half a revolution with it and as soon as the fingers came out of the V three of them fell out and hit the floor.
    I had noticed that they looked like they were in and out but come to find out the thickness of them varied bu about .025. The were all different. Guess they can't run grinders too well.

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    And if you look real close at the edge of the bar that holds them in place you'll see a row of chisel marks along the edge. Someone went along the edge to blurp it out so the fingers wold stay in place. By now my mind is made up....... this POS is going back.

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    Here is another pic of the blades. Notice how square it is to the table. No way to adjust that. Do you really thing this will shear anything??

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    JL.....................

  • #2
    Continued...............

    And here is the last picture............... For some reason that arm wanted to slide off the end of the shaft, must have been some misalignment there. I took it off just to see and noticed that the hole in the bronze bushing didn't line up with the grease fitting. Someone didn't line it up too good when they pressed it in.


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    At this point I'm done. There is no hope for this thing and I wouldn't waste my time trying to true it up. I called the dealer and explained to him what I found. Apparently he never saw one of these things close up. He was very apologetic and said no problem. We'll pick it up and send you another one. Why I said OK I'll never know.

    When the replacement arrived someone had backed into the side of the crate with a fork lift somewhere along the way. the rolls were knocked out of their place and the casting was cracked.
    I called the dealer again and said come and get this one......... and don't send me another.

    My better half started looking at these machines hoping she might find a make that might be better in quality and after looking she said, these all look the same, their just different colors !
    Pretty smart for a woman ! She made a list of all the different makes she found, they are as follows:

    Jet
    Bolton
    Millart
    HRMC Tool
    Kaka........... probably the mother factory since everything that comes out of there is...... kaka !
    Woodward Fab
    TTC
    GMC
    Erie Tools
    Baileigh
    Klutch
    Grizzly
    Dayton
    Birmingham
    Knuth
    Clark
    Shop Fox

    and there are probably more. Parts are all interchangeable and if for some reason if it doesn't fit it probably because they changed the design to cut costs.

    There. now that I said all this does anyone still have any questions about which make chinese machine to buy?

    JL................

    Comment


    • #3
      This was a picture of the second machine that got hit by a fork lift. When the rolls fell out they landed on the table, you can see the dings all over the table. Look at the blade on this one. I never moved it but someone apparently did at the factory and let it go like that. This one is also chewing on itself.

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      Someone must have taken a grinder to the table to knock some scabs off of it.

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      JL.......................
      Last edited by JoeLee; 09-17-2020, 09:30 PM.

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      • #4
        End of the table looks wavy..,

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        • #5
          Looks like a beat up harbor freight floor model. I’d have expected better from Jet’s sorting department also.

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          • #6
            Ouch.
            "A machinist's (WHAP!) best friend (WHAP! WHAP!) is his hammer. (WHAP!)" - Fred Tanner, foreman, Lunenburg Foundry and Engineering machine shop, circa 1979

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            • #7
              Look for something from Taiwan.
              Southwest Utah

              Comment


              • #8
                That's pretty nasty.

                At a former employer we had a Harbor Freight version of that. It was lousy as it was, but since I had to make prototypes on it, I spent a couple hours going through it, and after that it would shear well, and bend even better.

                There WERE adjustments for everything, but if you had not been involved with sheet metal products for years (I had been) I'd not expect anyone to see right away what to do. I did get the shear and bend parts working well, but never had anything for the rolls to do, so never looked at them.

                That one looks generally like what I worked with, but I cannot tell if there are all the adjustments. For sure, the shear did not have "negative rake" as your pic shows. At least that part was OK compared to yours. IIRC, the blade was about twice as wide, which would help a lot by itself.

                Looks like there is just one pic of the chewed blade, both the places you show that seem to be the same pic. Were both of them having "blade interference"?

                Without making excuses for that one, I will say that many such machines are expected to be aligned by the user after being mounted/installed. I wonder how many actually GET adjusted.

                And, there is some stuff that cannot be "adjusted out". It has to be right from the beginning.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 09-18-2020, 12:04 AM.
                1601

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

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                • #9
                  i bought such a machine 25 years ago and still use it. no problems, no adjusting, rolls work well. i broke one of the handles, thats it. wont cut larger pieces over 1 mm.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    That's pretty nasty.

                    At a former employer we had a Harbor Freight version of that. It was lousy as it was, but since I had to make prototypes on it, I spent a couple hours going through it, and after that it would shear well, and bend even better.

                    There WERE adjustments for everything, but if you had not been involved with sheet metal products for years (I had been) I'd not expect anyone to see right away what to do. I did get the shear and bend parts working well, but never had anything for the rolls to do, so never looked at them.

                    That one looks generally like what I worked with, but I cannot tell if there are all the adjustments. For sure, the shear did not have "negative rake" as your pic shows. At least that part was OK compared to yours. IIRC, the blade was about twice as wide, which would help a lot by itself.

                    Looks like there is just one pic of the chewed blade, both the places you show that seem to be the same pic. Were both of them having "blade interference"?

                    Without making excuses for that one, I will say that many such machines are expected to be aligned by the user after being mounted/installed. I wonder how many actually GET adjusted.

                    And, there is some stuff that cannot be "adjusted out". It has to be right from the beginning.
                    As far as the HF version goes these are all exactly the same as I mentioned previously.
                    I'm sure they have made changes since this design first hit the market. The early versions may have had a few adjustments but mine only had one.They probably did away with them as a cost cutting measure. One would have to think..... how much more can you cut?? the only adjustment mine had was a large bolt in the center of the casting behind the upper blade and all that did was force the center of the upper blade into the center lower blade, did nothing for the ends. The blades were so poorly ground that they couldn't possible make contact along their entire length.
                    My picture with the square shows the gap at the end.

                    Yes, both of them had blade interference. the second one was worse than the first. That's the one pictured outside on the wood dolly. I doubt any of these machines are aligned at the factory. There is nothing to align and no adjustments. It's just assemble them and how they fit is what you get. Since their machining tolerances are so poor I'm sure each one of these fits together differently.
                    Like the first one, it was locked up and wouldn't budge because of the blades were hitting and the shoulder of the one bolt was jammed against the slot.

                    The second one did must have been loose enough to cycle as the blade had some nasty chew marks on it in a couple spots, so at some time, some where someone cycled it. It wasn't me.
                    Maybe it left the factory that way.

                    Her is a picture I found of the back side. It shows how unevenly the two sliding surfaces meet. To the right of the angled bracket, not shown, is the large bolt that forces the center of the upper blade into the center of the lower blade.

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                    JL...................

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dian View Post
                      i bought such a machine 25 years ago and still use it. no problems, no adjusting, rolls work well. i broke one of the handles, thats it. wont cut larger pieces over 1 mm.
                      I wasn't aware that these combo machines were around 25 years ago. they may have been better made back then, like my Jet 15 ton press. I would hate to see what one of those is like now.

                      I've since bought a Di Acro 24" finger brake, 24" shear, 12" slip roll and even a corner notcher. No more chinese crap. So as far as sheet metal equipment in the shop, I'm all set.

                      JL..............

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was going to recommend DiAcro.
                        At work, we bought a rod and small tube bender just recently.
                        They are still in business or look on the used market.
                        There is the thought that you can re-work the flaws out of these brakes,
                        but the iron is likely to crack, so then it is really junk.

                        -Doozer
                        DZER

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                          I was going to recommend DiAcro.
                          At work, we bought a rod and small tube bender just recently.
                          They are still in business or look on the used market.
                          There is the thought that you can re-work the flaws out of these brakes,
                          but the iron is likely to crack, so then it is really junk.

                          -Doozer
                          Yes, Di Acro is still in business but the price for new stuff is astronomical. There is a lot of really clean used stuff out there but it's scarce. Tons of rusty junk on ebay with sky high prices. I looked for over a year and finally lucked out on the brake and shear.

                          There really aren't any flaws in any of the Di Acro stuff I bought. Machining . ground surface are all nice. The castings are clean and rock solid. The only thing I did with the shear is grind the top edges of the blades and played around with shim tape behind the upper one so I could get it to shear .001 shim stock without folding it. I don't think it was designed to shear anything that thin as it requires an almost interference fit between the blades.
                          Try to accomplish that with the chinese crap!!

                          JL................

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                            As far as the HF version goes these are all exactly the same as I mentioned previously.
                            I'm sure they have made changes since this design first hit the market. The early versions may have had a few adjustments but mine only had one.They probably did away with them as a cost cutting measure. One would have to think..... how much more can you cut?? the only adjustment mine had was a large bolt in the center of the casting behind the upper blade and all that did was force the center of the upper blade into the center lower blade, did nothing for the ends. The blades were so poorly ground that they couldn't possible make contact along their entire length.
                            My picture with the square shows the gap at the end.

                            ...........
                            Her is a picture I found of the back side. It shows how unevenly the two sliding surfaces meet. To the right of the angled bracket, not shown, is the large bolt that forces the center of the upper blade into the center of the lower blade.
                            ............
                            JL...................
                            The HF one I am familiar with had probably 10 adjustments just for the shear and bender, or at least places where there were bolts that would affect alignment and performance. I am not sure they all were intended to be adjustments, but they were indeed adjustable.

                            That center blade adjustment was one of them, and there were eccentric bolts to align the lower shear blade. The upper shear blade was, I believe, shimmed to set the end contact, in addition to that center "strongback" screw. The bender had several adjustments including one to get the ram aligned with the die so as to have the same depth of forming, and some others that I do not recall specifically.

                            That unit was from probably 15 years ago. Perhaps they found that nobody cared, or just arbitrarily eliminated many of the adjustments. I strongly suspect I was one of the few who ever touched most of them.

                            I would not expect to shear 0.001" even with Di-Acro, but the chinese one did 0.010 stock no issue when I got done with it. Probably would have done even thinner than that, but we did not work with any such.
                            Last edited by J Tiers; 09-18-2020, 10:34 AM.
                            1601

                            Keep eye on ball.
                            Hashim Khan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              https://tennsmith.com/

                              They cost though.
                              *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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