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New Tool Gloat and mini initial use review- Coaxial indicator

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  • New Tool Gloat and mini initial use review- Coaxial indicator

    So a buddy asked me to bore out a couple of holes in motorcycle parts yesterday and brought them over last night. One part is just a bushing. Easy peasy on the lathe. 17mm up to 20mm plus a couple of thou for a nice slip fit.

    Caliper hanger needed the same boring job. But due to the shape needed doing on the mill. I started rooting around for the bits I've used for centering holes before and was rapidly reminded about how kludgey the stuff is and how it's just a total PITA. So we stopped there and I started looking at something to make to hold a DTI with a little more reliable way to ensure that the gauge and needle are radial to the center of the spindle instead of always being all over the place. Looking at YT for ideas and thought "I wonder how much coaxial indicators are now?". Last time I checked about 10 years ago they were all big name super expensive. So courtesy of Amazon Prime I found an Accusize brand unit for just $130 (Canadian bucks which at this point are only about 67cents US). And I could have it the next day (today).

    So... it arrived about an hour ago. I unpacked it to find a really nice smooth operating feel. It didn't take me long to set it into a collet and have it testing the hole. What I found is that it's very slick and smooth in feel. All surfaces are nicely finished with a near high polish on the center piece that gets mounted into the collet and a nice look to the black finish on the outer barrel. The dial face is clean with nice sharp lines. And I did not feel any detectable play between the rotating inner and stationary outer barrel. Movement of the barrel up and down the inner portion is smooth as silk It was easy to repeat the exact number on the dial for movements on the table to the same index mark.

    The pointers are nicely finished and appear to be chromed. As delivered the finish on all the pointers is nice and tidy and the ball ends are smooth as silk.

    All in all even with our woefully depressed dollar increasing the price over what they go for in the US I still have no hesitation to say that this is a great value for the dollar. And darned if it did not make centering the first hole seen below a POC. About a minute to install the 3/8 collet and put the indicator into place. Then I think I might have taken a whole 2 minutes to roughly center the ball end above the hole and then sink it and dial in the runout to under one of the .0005" divisions. This is SO much better than the out of kilter and non radial futzing about I'm used to.

    So if you're in the market for a coaxial indicator for your mill or other uses I'm going to suggest you give the Accusize brand unit at least a good look. And it came in this nice neat little case which is well padded. Case and all is going into my milling gear drawer just as is.




    And its first use which occurred about 10 minutes after the package was opened. What used to be difficult and time consuming was done in about a minute and to less than a half thou runout to boot. At least according to the dial. Of course it's all relative and based on the length of the finger and angles and whatnot. But the point is that I was able to center the hole to the spindle to a decent degree in about a 20th the time as before.

    Click image for larger version

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    Chilliwack BC, Canada

  • #2
    I can center a bore with a regular test indicator faster than monkeying with a coax.
    So can you if you know how. It is not hard.
    Maybe I should make a video of it, as it would be too long and drawn out to
    describe it with text here.

    I have a Blake USA coax
    and a Links China coax.

    I like the Links China one better,
    I hate to say.

    Where a coax is really a benefit,
    is on a horizontal spindle.
    They have minimal indicator sag
    because you don't have heavy linkage
    only the slender probe.

    -Doozer
    Last edited by Doozer; 10-08-2020, 11:14 PM.
    DZER

    Comment


    • #3
      Cool, Thanks for the write up, I was looking at these recently and thought that looked like a reasonable price, which kinda scared me a little. LOL.
      If it wasn't done the hard way, I didn't do it.

      Lillooet
      British Columbia
      Canada.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah I am so used to my Indicol and DTI.... I don't think I need a coax.
        how well do us it work on say a 6 inch bore?
        when you are clamping that job, try a bushing and 2 clamp.. on the sides of the hole.. it's quick.. low tip clamps can help

        Comment


        • #5
          Prior to this I used an Indicol clone and a DTI. But I always had the tip of the DTI out away from a true radial So it was always sweeping an oddly off kilter circle. Or rather the point was sweeping a proper circle but when it was in line with either axis the body of the indicator was off at some odd angle. And it's that which messed me up and extended the time needed to get things more square.

          I made a little shaft with a dovetail in the end which worked well for using the Dti to sweep for smaller holes where I could hold the short dovetail side of things. But this wasn't good for really small or really big holes due to limits of the feeler's movement.... plus I couldn't find the darn thing last night. It was due to all the swearing at this which led to the impulse buy.

          But I'm glad I did. Even for a first time user just getting used to it I had the hole zeroed up in about 2 minutes from starting to put the coax into the collet. Likely a bit of beginner's luck in getting it dead on so quickly. But hey, I'll take it

          Mower, I'm pretty confident you'll like what you see when you get one. It really does show and feel in all respects like something out of one of the bigger names at a far bigger price.

          Chilliwack BC, Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BCRider View Post
            So a buddy asked me to bore out a couple of holes in motorcycle parts yesterday and brought them over last night. One part is just a bushing. Easy peasy on the lathe. 17mm up to 20mm plus a couple of thou for a nice slip fit.

            Caliper hanger needed the same boring job. But due to the shape needed doing on the mill. I started rooting around for the bits I've used for centering holes before and was rapidly reminded about how kludgey the stuff is and how it's just a total PITA. So we stopped there and I started looking at something to make to hold a DTI with a little more reliable way to ensure that the gauge and needle are radial to the center of the spindle instead of always being all over the place. Looking at YT for ideas and thought "I wonder how much coaxial indicators are now?". Last time I checked about 10 years ago they were all big name super expensive. So courtesy of Amazon Prime I found an Accusize brand unit for just $130 (Canadian bucks which at this point are only about 67cents US). And I could have it the next day (today).

            So... it arrived about an hour ago. I unpacked it to find a really nice smooth operating feel. It didn't take me long to set it into a collet and have it testing the hole. What I found is that it's very slick and smooth in feel. All surfaces are nicely finished with a near high polish on the center piece that gets mounted into the collet and a nice look to the black finish on the outer barrel. The dial face is clean with nice sharp lines. And I did not feel any detectable play between the rotating inner and stationary outer barrel. Movement of the barrel up and down the inner portion is smooth as silk It was easy to repeat the exact number on the dial for movements on the table to the same index mark.

            The pointers are nicely finished and appear to be chromed. As delivered the finish on all the pointers is nice and tidy and the ball ends are smooth as silk.

            All in all even with our woefully depressed dollar increasing the price over what they go for in the US I still have no hesitation to say that this is a great value for the dollar. And darned if it did not make centering the first hole seen below a POC. About a minute to install the 3/8 collet and put the indicator into place. Then I think I might have taken a whole 2 minutes to roughly center the ball end above the hole and then sink it and dial in the runout to under one of the .0005" divisions. This is SO much better than the out of kilter and non radial futzing about I'm used to.

            So if you're in the market for a coaxial indicator for your mill or other uses I'm going to suggest you give the Accusize brand unit at least a good look. And it came in this nice neat little case which is well padded. Case and all is going into my milling gear drawer just as is.




            And its first use which occurred about 10 minutes after the package was opened. What used to be difficult and time consuming was done in about a minute and to less than a half thou runout to boot. At least according to the dial. Of course it's all relative and based on the length of the finger and angles and whatnot. But the point is that I was able to center the hole to the spindle to a decent degree in about a 20th the time as before.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	P1030919.JPG Views:	86 Size:	104.3 KB ID:	1903991
            ​​​​​​​
            I almost bought one of those coaxial indicators once but I think it was only accurate to .0005 or something. I can do that and better with my Mitutoyo DTI. I know it's a pain to chase the dial around the mill but I always kept a small mirror handy.

            When I used to repair aluminum engine cases for the local bike shop and had to bore and sleeve a bearing seat I would make an aluminum plug to fit into the seal bore and the other end of the locating plug to fit a 3/4" R8. Once set up and located I would clamp the side case down to the table and bore the bearing seat out oversize. Banking on the oil seal hole being concentric with the bearing hole I never had a failure. Yes, it took a little time to make the plug, maybe 15 minutes but I used it on the next job. I have quite a collection of various size plugs that I've made over the years.

            JL...............

            Comment


            • #7
              I was working on some antique engine head castings, and having to constantly move the fixture to do the different machining operations. I found using the Coax to be much less tedious than the DTI, when doing setup over and over. I have to think using a DTI, the Coax not so much, for me, thats the advantage.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like a few of us have done a lot of of bike work.
                to me using the DTI quickly became easy. It becomes intuitive if you do it lots...you know your next move...it get quick..
                I mostly do 3 sides of hole is round, then a maybe final check on 4th side.
                what I like about the indicol ..it does not much matter if the hole is 1/2 inch or 8 inches. Not sure what a coax will reach ?
                as for the comment in the OP about true radius, keep in mind clocking a hole is about being concentric, ... comparative measuring..
                not wether actual run out is .0015 or .001....

                Comment


                • #9
                  For 99% of what I need to do I just use an edge finder and the DRO on the mill. Drop it in the hole, touch off on one side of X and zero. Touch off the other side and hit the “half” button. X now has center, repeat for the Y axis.

                  If you need it more accurate than that, do that first and then move to the DTI.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    First off I'm not trying to convert any of you from your present ways to buying a coaxial. I know you all too well to think that there would be even the slightest chance of that

                    If I had a DRO on my mill then edge finding the sides of the hole would be very much a nice way to go. But I don't.

                    I'd be curious about how some of you use an Indicol style holder and manage to set up the DTI so it's not at some odd skewed angle when the pointer ball is at the points where it's on the axes. It takes me way too long to futz with it to get it anywhere close and then start using it. I won't do so at this point because I've got my Coax unit. But it might be nice to see something along this line for others that struggle like I have to set up for sweeping holes and always thought there had to be a better way.

                    The only "trick" that worked for me in the past, and which I forgot about the other night, to make it a bit easier was to fit a smaller size 1/4 or 3/8 blank shaft into a collet and use that to line up the gauge's body and pointer. It's still wasn't perfect but it got the setup close enough to use. Then remove the center shaft and do the sweeping. But all this still took a lot of futzing around to get it set up so that it sort of looked all square and radial.

                    It was my annoyance at all the futzing about that led me to say "What the hell" and hit the "Place Order button". And for me, at least, to have a very happy ending at both the quality of this brand of coax indicator and how easy it was to use. So easy in fact that I was just nodding my head at reading darylbane's post about taking less time overall for his own work. Although I suppose that an Indicol setup once set up could be simply unlocked from the spindle quill and set aside for repeated use if things didn't move around...

                    I'll still use my Indicol clone and DTI for other things. It's just too handy to use for linear indicating. But for sweeping a hole I know which option I'll be reaching for in my shop. And hopefully my findings help out someone now or in the future that is considering buying a coax indicator as well.
                    Chilliwack BC, Canada

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had given a brief description of why angle of indicator should not be a problem, for 99 percent of work. I really think the angle makes little difference.
                      I have to ask ..does your DTI not have swivel tip ? Or maybe you do not realise it ?
                      on my Mitu.. I just grab the tip and it re positions thru approx 190 degrees of range.. so if the indicator lies at 45 deg angle, which is easy to read, the tip can be straight down...
                      but even if it wasn't to can dial in very close. It's not a test report, it's just clocking a hole..
                      BTW the other thing I do is hang the ball tip just above the hole for initial positioning, before the tip is touching the work.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So what range of hole size does a coax cover ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                          ...Even for a first time user just getting used to it I had the hole zeroed up in about 2 minutes from starting to put the coax into the collet. Likely a bit of beginner's luck in getting it dead on so quickly. But hey, I'll take it...
                          Yeah, stick to your guns. A co-ax indicator is a better, easier way to centre a bore. Doozer's claim that he can do it
                          quicker with a DTI may be true,if you're doing it all the time but for irregular users I don't think you can beat a co-ax;
                          the main reason being that you don't have to think bout what you're doing, everything just falls into place. I bought
                          an Asimeto co-ax a couple years ago and I'd never go back to using a DTI on a regular basis...



                          Keith
                          __________________________
                          Just one project too many--that's what finally got him...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ahhh.. .. I said I wouldn't do it, but here goes.

                            Start with 1 axis.
                            Swipe the bore.
                            Get a high and get a low.
                            Zero on either one.
                            Note the total run-out.
                            Adjust your axis by half that number.
                            You should be zero-zero on 1 axis.
                            Now that you have a zero,
                            rotate the spindle 90°
                            and adjust your other axis
                            to bring the indicator to zero.
                            You should be zero all the way around.
                            If you are few remaining thousandths off,
                            just clock them out and then it is perfect.
                            This should not take more than 1 minute.

                            I am not bragging, It is a technique of
                            starting somewhere, cutting numbers
                            in half to get a median value,
                            use that value to set 1 axis
                            then use that same value to set the other axis.
                            Then take up the last few thousandths.

                            It is just a procedure to learn
                            and just use it.

                            -Doozer
                            DZER

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Post script.....

                              You do know that you can use an edge finder to center a bore?
                              Just do at least 2 go arounds.
                              Touch x-x, split, then y-y, split, then x-x, split, then y-y, split.
                              Done.
                              Check it with a dial.
                              You will be within a thousandth.

                              -D
                              Last edited by Doozer; 10-09-2020, 04:01 PM.
                              DZER

                              Comment

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