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  • Bented
    replied
    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

    Wouldn't brass tend to continue work-hardening in use? I would be worried about it cracking eventually. But if not, maybe brass with an electroless nickel plate would be the way to go?
    Yes, if one fly fishes vigorously enough brass components will work harden until catastrophic failure occurs, eyes have been lost due to this oversight. (no pun intended)

    If tasked to design such a highly stressed machine component I would use cemented carbide, sinter them in a mold, finish grind then have them CVD coated in titanium nitride, this approach will not gall.




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  • redgrouse
    replied
    Brass will be just fine, most of the makers in the UK have used brass and not the cheapo ones as mentioned by Old Mart, Hardy's of Alnwick, Farlows, Sharpes of Aberdeen, Foster's of Ashbourne, Partridge of Redditch to mention but a few and all top quality world renown makers used brass ferules on their cane rods. Some were nickel plated on the female section or indeed tinned, most were finished with a chemically imparted bronzed colour.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom S View Post
    Herters - that pre-dates me. Interestingly enough, the blank I am thinking to try out a ferrule on is a Herters blank.

    Will certainly cost more than a plated brass ferrule, but a proper NS ferrule is plenty costly so I don't think I should lose out there. Unless you factor in all the equipment I've purchased to get to this point.
    Wouldn't brass tend to continue work-hardening in use? I would be worried about it cracking eventually. But if not, maybe brass with an electroless nickel plate would be the way to go?

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  • Tom S
    replied
    Herters - that pre-dates me. Interestingly enough, the blank I am thinking to try out a ferrule on is a Herters blank.

    Will certainly cost more than a plated brass ferrule, but a proper NS ferrule is plenty costly so I don't think I should lose out there. Unless you factor in all the equipment I've purchased to get to this point.

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  • CarlByrns
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom S View Post

    You’ll want to look at www.mudhole.com for those parts. Feel free to give me a shout if you need any help.
    Beat me to it. Haven't built or repaired rods since Herter's went under .

    It'll probably cost more to homebrew ferrules than to buy them.
    Last edited by CarlByrns; 10-17-2020, 08:44 PM.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Originally posted by Bented View Post

    That is old tech, it is currently carried on the backs of bitter ex-wives and is properly weathered within one month. This is known as BEWF

    If one desires to sell products to hobbyists a number of keywords must be used in advertising.
    Indeed it is coming hard to find any virgins since they tapped the last reserve back in the 70's. Hence, modern methods.

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  • epicfail48
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom S View Post
    I wonder if it might be possible to do something like this using stainless? Get a grade that is known for work hardening and try to swage the female part a touch and then roller burnish the male part. That might give a hardened mating surface while still leaving the rest of the component unhardened and thus tougher to withstand cycling from casting. hmmm.
    Id wager thatd probably work. Cant say ive ever actually tried roller burnishing, but knowing how much 304 likes to work-harden if you sneeze wrong i could certainly see roller burnishing bringing up the surface hardness a fair bit. Gotta say though, id still prefer trying in bronze or brass instead of stainless. Cant stand working with most grades of stainless, plus something like naval bronze would be more resistant to corrosion. Stainless still rusts, its just slower, last thing id want to do would be to lock a fishing pole together

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  • Tom S
    replied
    Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
    If nickel silver worked, I wonder how well something like naval bronze would

    Alternately, any way you could roller burnish a lathe turned part in nickel silver? Wouldn't be perfectly equal to a die formed part, but I'd imagine you'd get a decent bit of work hardening. Or, maybe build a form and spin some nickel silver sheeting into the ferrule. Probable end up with a closer result to draw forming
    You've got me thinking. I've heard of them being made from NS by deep drawing, but that's going to require more dedicated tooling. The ferrules are made in 1/64 increments, meaning I'd have to have a lot of dies to hit all the sizes.

    I wonder if it might be possible to do something like this using stainless? Get a grade that is known for work hardening and try to swage the female part a touch and then roller burnish the male part. That might give a hardened mating surface while still leaving the rest of the component unhardened and thus tougher to withstand cycling from casting. hmmm.

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  • Tom S
    replied
    Originally posted by Bented View Post

    The answer is in the question.


    Fly fishing equipment is highly stressed in use much like the the orbital correction thrusters used on communication satellites.
    Therefore such ferrules may only be manufactured using Copper/Nickle alloys that have been normalized then cold worked to near net form. Then rough grinding of the ID and OD followed by heat treatment and tempering . Heat to the transition temp. for a minimum of 56 hours then quench in the Tears Of A Clown followed by finish grinding.
    Collecting a sufficient volume of Clown's Tears for large scale manufacturing is the issue, the most common method is considered a War Crime by the Geneva Convention, this however does not stop fishing equipment manufacturers from doing so, they are a ruthless lot
    There should not be any shortage of clown tears right now with all the weeping and gnashing of teeth being carried out by politicians of all stripes... from what I understand the Canadian leader is keeping his in a paper drink box water bottle sort of thing.



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  • epicfail48
    replied
    If nickel silver worked, I wonder how well something like naval bronze would

    Alternately, any way you could roller burnish a lathe turned part in nickel silver? Wouldn't be perfectly equal to a die formed part, but I'd imagine you'd get a decent bit of work hardening. Or, maybe build a form and spin some nickel silver sheeting into the ferrule. Probable end up with a closer result to draw forming

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  • old mart
    replied
    The cheapo rods that I had many years ago usually had brass ferrules.

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  • Bented
    replied
    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

    Alternatively, you could use aerospace hospital grade military tactical billet -- in the olden days it was carried on the backs of seven virgins for seven years, to properly "weather" it.
    That is old tech, it is currently carried on the backs of bitter ex-wives and is properly weathered within one month. This is known as BEWF

    If one desires to sell products to hobbyists a number of keywords must be used in advertising.

    Billet
    CNC machined
    Aircraft alloy
    Military Spec material
    Alloy Steel (this is a Jumbo Shrimp as by definition all steel is an alloy, steel is not an element)
    Flame Hardened
    BEWF (bitter ex-wife finishing)
    Edit
    I forgot to mention Titanium and Cemented Carbide, these materials give many hobbyists wood.
    Last edited by Bented; 10-18-2020, 09:26 AM.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Originally posted by Bented View Post

    The answer is in the question.


    Fly fishing equipment is highly stressed in use much like the the orbital correction thrusters used on communication satellites.
    Therefore such ferrules may only be manufactured using Copper/Nickle alloys that have been normalized then cold worked to near net form. Then rough grinding of the ID and OD followed by heat treatment and tempering . Heat to the transition temp. for a minimum or 56 hours then quench in the Tears Of A Clown followed by finish grinding.
    Collecting a sufficient volume of Clown's Tears for large scale manufacturing is the issue, the most common method is considered a War Crime by the Geneva Convention, this however does not stop fishing equipment manufacturers from doing so, they are a ruthless lot
    Alternatively, you could use aerospace hospital grade military tactical billet -- in the olden days it was carried on the backs of seven virgins for seven years, to properly "weather" it.

    Leave a comment:


  • mattthemuppet
    replied
    electro (or chemically) polished alu hard anodised would be very smooth and durable. A good anodiser (or lots of trial and error) will get you a very precise fit. Not sure if it'll be too smooth for your application - I'd personally add a couple of o-rings sized for a slight drag. That'll definitely get you a good "pop" when you remove the section. You could also play around with surface finishes, by etching or sandblasting if you want more grip. The surface finish generally transfers through after anodising.

    I'm not 100% sure hard anodising is practical in a home shop as it requires a chilled acid bath, but it wouldn't be too hard to set up a refridgeration unit if that was the path you wanted to take. Type 2 anodising is well within the abilities of anyone on here but it's much less durable than Type 3.

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  • Bented
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom S View Post

    Selling this to the fishermen was simply a matter of telling them it was better, since many fishermen tend to be gullible creatures that will throw money at anything they think will give them either status or increased performance.
    The answer is in the question.


    Fly fishing equipment is highly stressed in use much like the the orbital correction thrusters used on communication satellites.
    Therefore such ferrules may only be manufactured using Copper/Nickle alloys that have been normalized then cold worked to near net form. Then rough grinding of the ID and OD followed by heat treatment and tempering . Heat to the transition temp. for a minimum of 56 hours then quench in the Tears Of A Clown followed by finish grinding.
    Collecting a sufficient volume of Clown's Tears for large scale manufacturing is the issue, the most common method is considered a War Crime by the Geneva Convention, this however does not stop fishing equipment manufacturers from doing so, they are a ruthless lot
    Last edited by Bented; 10-17-2020, 02:03 PM.

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