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OT - security camera system for shop, NVR system question

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    Not sure what all this means.... edge recording, mid line power injection but it all seems more advanced than the average home security cameras are. Unfortunately for me I had to go wireless because it is way too much trouble to try and run cables from the shop to the house and the various points in and around the shop and house where I've put cameras. If I were building or remodeling then I would without a doubt run wires.

    I checked out the Axis cameras. It looks like they no longer offer any wireless models. This seems to be the trend with most of the higher quality camera mfg.'s


    JL..............
    Edge recording : recording at the camera if the NVR connectivity is lost

    Mid-line power injection - Just a simple (cheap) power supply that put 48volts on the ethernet to provide POE to the camera. Normally this is fed from the ethernet switch but that make it vulnerable to disruption if accessible.

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    • #17
      Thank you all for posting - spent part of my free time the past week down the security camera worm hole - at least your postings gave me a head start on what directions down the worm hole. I know the thread is going on two weeks old but I have some more follow up questions.

      lakeside53:
      Thank you for the very detailed response! I've reread it several times to pick out nuggets of information though I may not be buying Axis cameras - the few I have looked at are quite costly (yea I know you get what you pay for). Price wise, two Axis cameras = really nice 4-axis LCD DRO w/ magnetic scales.

      Do any of you have separate IR lights (not using the build in IR lights on the camera) to avoid bugs swarming the camera and tripping the camera's motion detection? If so, can the light be higher than the camera and flooding down on the area to be monitored? On one IR light advertisement the seller said the IR light should be in line with the camera. How far away from the camera should the light be to keep most of the bugs away from the camera?

      At both my residence and my workshop (not on the same property) there is one desired camera location that would not be easy / reasonable to run a cable. I am interested in a camera with a battery & solar panel for power (might also want a separate IR light with battery & solar panel). I'm not overly interested in building my own charging package - I would rather buy a camera/solar panel as a developed product. After an hour or more of surfing, most everything I have seen is 1080P camera resolution when I am aiming for 4 to 5 MP for each camera. The solar camera would be a moderate wide angle with about a 60 ft range. Anyone have knowledge of this type of camera?
      Metro Detroit

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      • #18
        Please use more acrynims.
        Not quite cryptic enough.
        Thanks.

        -D
        DZER

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        • #19
          I have remote IR illuminators for my cameras and have the camera led's turned off. The illuminators are 1-1/2-2ft from the camera and I get no bug attraction at all. A plus is the remote illuminator is MUCH higher powered than the led's in the camera giving a much better night picture and much further distance.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by aribert View Post
            Do any of you have separate IR lights (not using the build in IR lights on the camera) to avoid bugs swarming the camera and tripping the camera's motion detection?
            Reliable outdoor motion detection is very difficult IMO. Even if you exclude the trees, the shadows from the trees will trigger it. If you set the thresholds too low, then it will fail to trigger when you wanted it to trigger. lakeside53 gave you some excellent advice, but I disagree with the suggestion to record on motion. If you have the disk space, then record all the time (or at least when you think crime is more likely) and use the motion detection to help review the recordings/find events. I was originally recording on motion using the inbuilt AXIS motion detection module, and I didn't like the results. I switched to continuous recording and it's been much better. Seven, 1080p cameras recording at 25 frames/second (FPS for Doozer) at the highest image quality setting 24/7 and I get about three weeks of recording on 18 terabytes (TB for Doozer). It doesn't sound like you need anywhere near three weeks of storage in your case.

            I use Synology's Surveillance Station. I find it reasonably good (not perfect), but it's the only thing I have experience with. Using a Networked Attached Storage (NAS for Doozer) device has some benefits over a PC, but you will need to decide which suits you better. The NAS is a bit more limiting, but less hassle, smaller, quieter, etc.

            Also factor in an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS for Doozer). You'll want your system to keep recording if someone cuts the power. A small NAS is nice here because it uses considerably less power than a computer. Your UPS will have to keep the NAS and cameras running. This is easy if you power the cameras over Ethernet (PoE for Doozer).

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
              OK, the cameras I have will work either way. Wireless / 12v power supply or POE. It's next to impossible for me to run any wires to a camera mounted outside under the eves. ............
              Rethink running the wires. Ive used a toy pistol crossbow to shoot a fishing line and used an rc car to pull a string down an AC duct. Even read a story about a commercial installer who used his trained pet rat to pull the string into otherwise inaccessible places.

              Steve
              Last edited by SteveF; 10-27-2020, 10:00 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by pinstripe View Post

                Reliable outdoor motion detection is very difficult IMO. Even if you exclude the trees, the shadows from the trees will trigger it. If you set the thresholds too low, then it will fail to trigger when you wanted it to trigger. lakeside53 gave you some excellent advice, but I disagree with the suggestion to record on motion. If you have the disk space, then record all the time (or at least when you think crime is more likely) and use the motion detection to help review the recordings/find events. I was originally recording on motion using the inbuilt AXIS motion detection module, and I didn't like the results. I switched to continuous recording and it's been much better. Seven, 1080p cameras recording at 25 frames/second (FPS for Doozer) at the highest image quality setting 24/7 and I get about three weeks of recording on 18 terabytes (TB for Doozer). It doesn't sound like you need anywhere near three weeks of storage in your case.

                I use Synology's Surveillance Station. I find it reasonably good (not perfect), but it's the only thing I have experience with. Using a Networked Attached Storage (NAS for Doozer) device has some benefits over a PC, but you will need to decide which suits you better. The NAS is a bit more limiting, but less hassle, smaller, quieter, etc.

                Also factor in an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS for Doozer). You'll want your system to keep recording if someone cuts the power. A small NAS is nice here because it uses considerably less power than a computer. Your UPS will have to keep the NAS and cameras running. This is easy if you power the cameras over Ethernet (PoE for Doozer).
                You are correct about basic motion detection being subject to false trips BUT it depends a lot on the software you are running. I use Blue Iris which has a lot of advanced motion detection features. One option, which i use, is to use "Zones", you draw multiple areas on the cameras image defined as zones. You can set it up that a object must cross from Zone A into Zone B then into Zone C for example to cause a trigger, there are many other variations possible too, that was just one example. Using Zones has pretty much eliminated false trips you describe from shadows, wind blowing trees and such. IF you want to get really deep into it, there is AI (artificial intelligence) capabilities that distinguish the shapes of humans, cars etc from other objects, it can even recognize and read/enhance license plates as well as identifying the make/model of a vehicle. There are more motion detection refinements too, these are just examples.

                So.... long story short, there are big differences in motion detection capabilities and accuracy depending on the software used.
                Last edited by Sparky_NY; 10-27-2020, 10:08 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by SteveF View Post

                  Rethink running the wires. Ive used a toy pistol crossbow to shoot a fishing line and used an rc car to pull a string down an AC duct. Even read a story about a commercial installer who used his trained pet rat to pull the string into otherwise inaccessible places.

                  Steve
                  Well, those are some pretty creative ways of running wires but, I don't have any hot air ducts in my house...... radiant heat in the floors. Ain't no rat going to crawl through a 1/2" copper pipe.

                  JL....................

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                  • #24
                    Remember hd space is cheap.. with a couple camera's you could probably record a months worth of video without having to worry about setting up motion detection...

                    sam

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
                      I use Blue Iris which has a lot of advanced motion detection features. One option, which i use, is to use "Zones", you draw multiple areas on the cameras image defined as zones. You can set it up that a object must cross from Zone A into Zone B then into Zone C for example to cause a trigger, there are many other variations possible too, that was just one example. Using Zones has pretty much eliminated false trips you describe from shadows, wind blowing trees and such.
                      AXIS has this as an optional feature called "Cross Line Detection". I can enable it free for a while, but I don't think it will do what I want in my case. I have the disk space now anyway


                      Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post
                      IF you want to get really deep into it, there is AI (artificial intelligence) capabilities that distinguish the shapes of humans, cars etc from other objects, it can even recognize and read/enhance license plates as well as identifying the make/model of a vehicle. There are more motion detection refinements too, these are just examples.
                      This sounds interesting, thanks. I'll have to check it out. I did run into Blue Iris when I was picking the bits for my system, but I had already decided on a Synology NAS at that point. I still think it's the preferred option for me generally, but more recently I have been watching for cats and big birds (the fish-eating kind) approaching my pond. I keep one monitor dedicated to the cameras and go out to scare them away when I see them. It would be really helpful if the computer could alert me reliably.

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                      • #26
                        After windowing, we don't have any issue with outside motion trigger EXCEPT snow... Snow flakes are essentially random and cover the entire field of view. Yes, you can decrease the overall sensitivity, but not really any good solutions. Our usage is more "forensic" - going back and looking up to 6 months, or even a year, for events. We have to reduce the storage to motion events or the search becomes impossible. We do have a few cams that record always; easier to track people/things in a large space.

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