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  • Set Tru Gloat + Machining

    Seems like there has been a bit of discussion about such topics recently, I thought I'd join in.

    Dad told me that a local machinery dealer had a 6 jaw with no backplate that they were willing to trade. I wasn't expecting much, something like a beat 10" with one-piece jaws and missing the second set of course.

    Boy was I in for a surprise. Dad traded a 10" D1-6 SB 4 jaw for a 12" Bison Adjust-Tru 6 jaw with two piece jaws. The old man is worth keeping around for a few things I guess. The best part? It appears to have only ever seen mill use on a rotary table. Other than some apprentice marks in the jaws, they appeared brand new.

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    The two caveats: No backplate, and it appeared to have been in a flood. Totally rusty inside and out. Dad got it cleaned up though, and the pitting is extremely minimal.

    The backplate proved to be more of an issue. The proper Bison backplate is like $680+tax. By a stroke of luck dad found a Buck backplate on ebay for $200 which happened to be the same or larger on all dimensions. So basically it was perfect, just had a little too much meat on it.

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    (Gorgeous surface finish)

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    Luckily we have just the machine for that.

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    Fit up, still needing finish turning.

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    Last edited by The Metal Butcher; 10-23-2020, 01:35 AM.
    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

  • #2
    I made some chips I was pretty proud of.

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    The part that really amazed me: when I got done with my register facing cuts (I was facing at a mere .150 width) I decided to take try the full 9/16" wide cut under hand feed, just for yucks. To my surprise, not only did it cut it, but it cut amazingly with no chatter and gorgeous chips that curled up and popped right off. Had I have known I would have cut the entire thing like that and saved a bunch of time. Ah well.

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    Coolant was pretty instrumental and I had a steady little steam trail rising up, like a pot on a low boil.

    The Sidney lathe proved to be instrumental for this. Most modern lathes, like dad's Lagun 1440, don't allow the carriage wings to travel past the headstock so you can't get very close. With the Sidney being up close and tight I could take a much larger DOC and even chamfer the backside (After turning the OD) without ever needing a boring bar to reach around.

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    Last edited by The Metal Butcher; 10-23-2020, 01:38 AM.
    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

    Comment


    • #3
      After checking the fit on all 6 spots on the Lagun, I found the most ideal and cut the finish surface. The Sidney cuts a cone so it's not very good for finishing this sort of thing.

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      With my tool sticking so far out it chattered when I stopped the cut at even only 25 thou. lol

      Since the bolt holes were already right all we had to do was mount the chuck it on, dial it in, and torque it up.

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      So yeah. Now we've got a giant ass 6 jaw I guess. It does have a few downsides. One being that I cannot lift it. I barely got it on there without the backplate, which is like 27 lbs or something. The whole setup is probably at least 140 lbs. So building a chuck-lifter is in order. Need one of those fancy skyhook style scroll chuck lifters as well. The other disadvantage is that the lathe really struggles to get it up to speed, especially with an undersized phase converter. Should prove to be useful though. Both the chuck and backplate are steel, and are rated to 1500 RPM, so that's a nice advantage. Doozer what says you? I know you think 6 jaws are overrated.

      Bonus pic of the carbide wear after turning down the backplate. I think the interrupted cut on the bolt holes was responsible for chipping it.

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      Last edited by The Metal Butcher; 10-23-2020, 01:39 AM.
      21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
      1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

      Comment


      • #4
        dayum, now that is a beautiful chuck! Your local machinery dealer wouldn't happen to have a 6" 4 jaw that he'd be interested in swapping for wishes and warm feelings would he?

        Comment


        • #5
          Late last winter I picked up a 15" 4-jaw for my Springfield. I haven't actually weighed it, but I'd bet a paycheck it's knocking on the door of 200 lb.

          I have a sort of half-assed 'mezzanine' shelf above the lathe, so I've been plotting how to make a simple, cheap and compact overhead 'tram' sort of thing. Something where I can have the chucks on a rack or shelf behind the tailstock end, run the skyhook up, pick up whichever chuck I need, roll it overhead-crane style to the spindle, and hook it up.

          Frank Ford has a pageful of "shop tricks" and describes making his own miniature chainfall. I was thinking of something like that, or trying to find a very compact 1/4-ton commercial chainfall. He or possibly someone else also described how to make an 'overhead crane' assembly- two axes- using Unistrut. But you could of course do the same thing- if you're willing to make your own carriages or rollers- with small I-beam (I'm told you can get it as small as 3".)

          Doc.
          Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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          • #6
            Skookum 6 jaw dude ! ! !
            So gelly !

            -Doozer
            DZER

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            • #7
              Nice find............. all six jaws have a drill mark in the exact same spot and depth........ almost looks deliberate. Wonder how that happened ?

              JL.................

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
                dayum, now that is a beautiful chuck! Your local machinery dealer wouldn't happen to have a 6" 4 jaw that he'd be interested in swapping for wishes and warm feelings would he?
                Thanks Matt. Our local machinery dealer doesn't deal with anything smaller than D1-6, at least in their usual inventory. They also aren't particular generous either. What they look for is easy turn-arounds. A $3000 new chuck that is covered in rust, drill pecked, has no backplate, and totally locked up isn't a quick turn-around. So they got rid of it cheap and still probably came out positive. Since we had 3 near identical 4 jaws, we also came out positive. We don't have many(any?) that size but I'll look.

                Originally posted by Doc Nickel View Post
                Late last winter I picked up a 15" 4-jaw for my Springfield. I haven't actually weighed it, but I'd bet a paycheck it's knocking on the door of 200 lb.

                I have a sort of half-assed 'mezzanine' shelf above the lathe, so I've been plotting how to make a simple, cheap and compact overhead 'tram' sort of thing. Something where I can have the chucks on a rack or shelf behind the tailstock end, run the skyhook up, pick up whichever chuck I need, roll it overhead-crane style to the spindle, and hook it up.

                Frank Ford has a pageful of "shop tricks" and describes making his own miniature chainfall. I was thinking of something like that, or trying to find a very compact 1/4-ton commercial chainfall. He or possibly someone else also described how to make an 'overhead crane' assembly- two axes- using Unistrut. But you could of course do the same thing- if you're willing to make your own carriages or rollers- with small I-beam (I'm told you can get it as small as 3".)

                Doc.
                That sounds nice. I'm very short on ceiling height, so I'm just gonna build a knockoff skyhook with a harbor freight strap winch. Then it will work on both lathes as well. We have the chucks on an overloaded cart that can be rolled up to the lathes.

                Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                Skookum 6 jaw dude ! ! !
                So gelly !

                -Doozer
                Well thankfully you have an absolutely kickass shop with plenty of items for us to envy like that HBM. 🤤

                Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                Nice find............. all six jaws have a drill mark in the exact same spot and depth........ almost looks deliberate. Wonder how that happened ?

                JL.................
                Like I said in the first post, it was used for mill work. So someone went too deep drilling a hole pattern. Probably on a CNC.
                21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                  Thanks Matt. Our local machinery dealer doesn't deal with anything smaller than D1-6, at least in their usual inventory. They also aren't particular generous either. What they look for is easy turn-arounds. A $3000 new chuck that is covered in rust, drill pecked, has no backplate, and totally locked up isn't a quick turn-around. So they got rid of it cheap and still probably came out positive. Since we had 3 near identical 4 jaws, we also came out positive. We don't have many(any?) that size but I'll look.
                  thanks, much appreciated. Sounds like a bit of insight/ inside knowledge got you a long way there, nice work! In the meantime before you get somekind of hoist operational, a fitted wooden block to go between the chuck and the ways can help with alignment and fitting. It won't help with the lifting, but at least it'll help get the chuck on and off and to where it's a little easier to lift it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post

                    thanks, much appreciated. Sounds like a bit of insight/ inside knowledge got you a long way there, nice work! In the meantime before you get somekind of hoist operational, a fitted wooden block to go between the chuck and the ways can help with alignment and fitting. It won't help with the lifting, but at least it'll help get the chuck on and off and to where it's a little easier to lift it.
                    Dad has known them for a while. We've also bid against them on items, lost, and then seen what they did (or didn't do) to said items and also the multiplication in price. Dad is charismatic as hell so he can still get some good deals/knowledge. Me not so much.

                    Wooden boards are good. We have one made but I need a bunch more, and a little more precise. The downside is that a 12" chuck on a 14" swing lathe doesn't leave a lot of room. One must make a carefully contoured board to have it be strong enough.
                    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                      Nice find............. all six jaws have a drill mark in the exact same spot and depth........ almost looks deliberate. Wonder how that happened ?

                      JL.................
                      One jaw has a "oh No" on it, maybe it is an attempt to balance all jaws equally , and you would want to do it in the exact same place for dynamic balance.
                      Rich
                      Green Bay, WI

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                      • #12
                        Great lessons here. Thanks The Metal Butcher... JR

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nice! congrats! (and a bit envious...)
                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post

                            One jaw has a "oh No" on it, maybe it is an attempt to balance all jaws equally , and you would want to do it in the exact same place for dynamic balance.
                            Rich
                            Again. It was used for mill work. On a rotatory table or CNC or DRO with coordinates. Just apprentice marks.

                            Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                            Great lessons here. Thanks The Metal Butcher... JR
                            Thanks JR.

                            Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
                            Nice! congrats! (and a bit envious...)
                            Thanks! I think you'll need a bigger lathe to swing this one. It even looks sort of big on the Lagun. Especially in person.
                            21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                            1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                              Dad has known them for a while. We've also bid against them on items, lost, and then seen what they did (or didn't do) to said items and also the multiplication in price. Dad is charismatic as hell so he can still get some good deals/knowledge. Me not so much.

                              Wooden boards are good. We have one made but I need a bunch more, and a little more precise. The downside is that a 12" chuck on a 14" swing lathe doesn't leave a lot of room. One must make a carefully contoured board to have it be strong enough.
                              that reminds me of my Dad For the chuck holder/ slider, what about a couple of pieces of alu plate, notched for the V ways and tied together with a couple of pieces of stout all thread in the space between the front and rear ways? You're not going to be lifting with it, just support it (on 2 points even) and still be able to slide it. Alu is pretty slipery on steel, so it might work. More effort than something out of wood though.

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