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  • #16
    Don't have a small car, but I don't understand the "fooling yourselves" comment. What is NOT true that they think IS true?
    CNC machines only go through the motions.

    Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
    Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
    Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
    I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
    Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.


    • #17
      Originally posted by tom_d View Post

      The never been taken off the road "off-road vehicles" are usually the first to go off road when the first snow of the season arrives. Over confident and under qualified drivers. I've been plowing snow for many years now. Getting to the point where I can tell which cars I need to pay closer attention to as they approach the plow. Seems like the chances of those things hitting the ditch are directly related to the amount of aftermarket chrome accessories added.
      I to have too many years of snow plowing behind me, and I'd like to add the "outdoor enthusiast" group to the short list above. It's like they think the sled decks add to the aerodynamics.....
      If it wasn't done the hard way, I didn't do it.

      British Columbia


      • #18
        The way people drive in my area many times I wished I had an M1 Abrams instead of a 7900 lb diesel pickup!


        • #19
          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
          I will keep my 4000 lb V-8 car and my 23 mpg.
          Safe in a crash, stable on the road,
          and cost me a fraction of what you paid for yours.
          You can keep your hockey puck car.
          Because that is what it is.


          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
          You hit it and they go flying!
          Don't hit me then boss.
          21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
          1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration


          • #20
            I had a '78 chevette- it would start fine but you couldn't drive it until it warmed up. Other than that, it was ok- until my nephew rolled it. Now I have a Kia Rio- 1.6 litre and 115 hp. It will stall out if you don't feather it from a standing start, but other than that it's a good little car. It's a real car, not a widened Red Racer wagon or a smart car, or one of those Italian or French tuna cans. I'd be embarrassed to be driving one of those hockey pucks.
            I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-


            • #21
              Well, what is it? the window sticker doesnt say.
              it it a 2 seater or no?


              • #22
                Sticker says 2000 Honda Insight. Current models seem to have worse fuel economy, but still pretty good. Looks to be a five seat sedan.


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                Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                USA Maryland 21030


                • #23
                  At least all the cars your talking about are steel - this things aluminum,,, you can't even call it a tin can,,, yet it's pretty robust in areas, very very thick stuff, supposedly has the same 4 star crash rating as it's bigger steel brother the honda civic of same year...

                  It is nimble as all get out, you can avoid allot of trouble in an instant - it literally darts around if and when you want it too.

                  I took a little trip tonight - mountain trip of 127.3 miles up and back down (I live in the foothills), could not believe it, 69mpg's to get up to a higher town, and by the time i got back down the MPG rating was 73.5...
                  I have checked the cars estimated MPG rating to what goes in at the pump and how many miles covered and it's spot on along with it's speed comparison to those speed check boxes that show how fast your going.

                  Going up my driving speed was about average to maybe 5 under in key areas that I knew was a help, of course coming back down the speed was about average to 5 over. car has a drag coefficient of .25 so very slippery and good time to take advantage of it...

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                  it's not a car - it's a scientific lab experiment and a great cruiser very comfortable and fun to drive....

                  and ya have to keep in mind - this is with 10% ethanol... im smitten...


                  • #24
                    Yup Paul that's my car, It's a two seater, got to thinking --- after my CRX's a suzi X-90 and my del sol this is my fifth two seater that iv owned, in many cases one seat too many but nice to have in case you need it i guess...

                    all these years i have never owned anything bigger than a four banger.... crazy times and now I got a three lol


                    • #25
                      The trifecta for automobile power plants is: Efficiency, power, pollution. It seems that it's easy to excel in any two areas, but all three at once is more difficult. It would seem that blinding fast acceleration would not cost in efficiency or pollution. Unfortunately even with BEVs the 1000 HP surges will make a dent in the battery capacity. I think it's Peukert's law that says that as the rate of discharge increases, the battery's available capacity decreases. Likewise, you can lean out an engine a lot to get better economy, but at some point the pollutants and / or power are impacted.

                      I'd say that the 2020 Insight is doing pretty well in most aspects for a 5 passenger car at 48 mpg and 8 second 0-60. Reading up on it, you get the 0-60 in "sport mode" OR you get 48 mpg in the economy mode. That's logical. The allowable emissions are limited by the government so power and efficiency are the only two areas that they can mess with. The 2000 insight had better mileage but had only two seats. It was able to do a decent 0-60, but could only do it a few times before the battery became discharged too much to allow electric assist. The 5 speed manual was not really made for long stop and go commutes, since it required you to put it in neutral when stopped in order to kill the engine.

                      Ringo asked: Well, what is it? the window sticker doesnt say. it it a 2 seater or no?

                      2020 is a 5 seater. 2000 is a 2 seater.

                      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                      Location: SF East Bay.


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by danlb View Post
                        The 2000 insight had better mileage but had only two seats. It was able to do a decent 0-60, but could only do it a few times before the battery became discharged too much to allow electric assist.
                        I think your off on the 0 - 60 taking out the pack in that short of order, id hate to put the car through it to see what it would take to drain the pack doing that and I have the original battery pack that was throwing an IMA code when i bought the car and I brought the battery back around by deep cycle draining/charging routine, You also have to keep in mind your going to be stopping the car to do another test, so "most" of your energy gets pumped back into the pack for the next "launch",

                        last night I left my town and had to climb out of what we call "8 mile hill" it's the only area I really charged up max throttle and assist the whole trip just to see what the car could do --- I drained the pack to only half level after many many minutes of assist, crested the "summit" @ 71mph... many many zero to 60 times could have been fit into that time frame - perhaps dozens, and that's all without the bennies of recharge braking that you would have gotten from lining up to do another 0 - 60 run...

                        there may be another factor here though --- I have a 5 speed and when having to gear down and rap the engine out for long periods it seems my assist scale drops off to about half level or 2/3rds depending, maybe my pack cannot put out the discharge rate for long extended periods because it's weak?

                        it might even be some kind of thermal protection mode for the long grunts to keep the electric motor/generator from having a meltdown, Im surprised to learn that these motors are not cooled - and they are sandwiched between two heat producing elements, the engine and the trans - now toss in the heat from the friction disc (clutch) --- cannot be an easy life!

                        that being said - for short periods like going through first/second and third gear it will hold full assist all the way up to redline from a dead stop till your shifting out of third,

                        So I don't know all the factors yet - im still learning about the car, but perhaps even many of the guru's who know them well do not live in the testing conditions that are in my backyard so never experience some things...

                        The 5 speed manual was not really made for long stop and go commutes, since it required you to put it in neutral when stopped in order to kill the engine.

                        It's not a bad thing - it becomes second nature, I would say the biggest factor is the downshifting, something the CVT's do automatically, but Iv always done it automatically with my manuals just to save brakes, so yeah that's a preference but not even a consideration in my case, i'll take the manual any day, I milk out all the stored momentum and put it back into the battery with the re-gen system and then when the cars almost stopped I just slip it into neutral "IF" I see that im going to be sitting at a light or stop sign for awhile, "IF" I know it's going to be an immediate take off then I don't even bother,

                        in that respect the manual actually has an advantage - why turn off your engine when you don't want too ? why create the delay? yet the CVT's will make that judgement call for you, many times being the wrong decision, no big whoop it's just a split second - but one i don't have to even worry about and can stop and count on taking back off in an instant - sometimes allowing me to get through an intersection because the opportune time needed to be just that, instant...


                        • #27
                          My daughter recently gave me her 2006 Silverado 4 wd pickup to replace the elderly GMC Jimmy I have been driving the past couple of years. It drives as if it had 10 miles on the clock, but it has travelled nearly 300,000 . It towed her camper across Canada twice without any problems.
                          Providing I drive at 60 mph or less I get about 25 mpg on long journeys, As I travel only for pleasure and not for work or commuting economy is a minor. consideration.
                          One ,long deceased employer who drove a real Land Rover always referred to small cars, especially those fitted with big exhaust pipes as " Fartmobiles".
                          I have owned a few small cars in my time , but like Doozer, really enjoy big trucks,
                          Regards David Powell.


                          • #28
                            Iv always had to be somewhat efficient --- and for some reason as of the last couple decades even more so - so much that I just been opting out on taking pleasure cruises till now due to this car,

                            FWIW if anyone has a hybrid system and the battery is starting to shoot craps and your thinking of replacing it or selling the car give me a shout, allot of these batterys are actually still good in fact that's all the remanufactured ones are is old ones ran through some total drain/recharge modes, beats spending a couple grand or more for the same thing...


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                              after my CRX's a
                              I had a 1990 CRX HF. For 1990 the HF was the all star gas sipper. Loved the car. Was so light that I had a completely flat rear tire and didnt know it till I was getting gas one day. True story. That car was plain jane cept for the 1000 dollar A/C I opted for. JR


                              • #30
                                Offhand, the hybrid does seem to be the way to go. Electric assist for acceleration and hill climbing, with a small gas or propane engine for steady cruising and battery charging, power brakes and power steering. Go one step further and give it the generator capability- run your household in emergencies. You could still charge the battery from house current, but in all likelyhood you wouldn't often need to. If you did, a single 110 outlet would be enough- no need to even go to 220, let alone a 'custom' charging station at home.

                                I once read that it takes all of 20 hp to maintain a full size car at 55 mph- the other 980 hp is for jackrabbit starts and accelerating uphill. For a small car, especially part or full electric, that should be less- my 13 hp generator could be enough to cruise with on gas alone for steady state driving. This would mean that gas alone could not be used for stop/start- electric assist would be mandatory.

                                I guess it comes down to the driving experience- most of us are probably still stuck on the 'full size car', big engine thing that we've become accustomed to, or are at least told that's what we want. I'm not against the 'big engine'- I like driving the Astro van with it's 200 hp and low revs, that's a comfortable experience on its own, with lots of interior room and loading capability. But I think I could also go way smaller than even the Kia- provided I got a good sporty feeling out of it. That could be something like a road-worthy 4 trak, or even a two wheeler- provided it had the full canopy and heat. An airplane cockpit on wheels- and with full diameter wheels, not the 9 inch castors that some of those car-wannabees have.
                                I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-