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Not O/T: Security for the Shop. Any ideas?

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  • Not O/T: Security for the Shop. Any ideas?

    "Mine" is if they dont see it, its not there. Nothing to steal.
    The best security there is.

    Locks, metal, concrete, ceramic. Dont really care what the box is made of, or how large it is. I can get into it without hurting the content. Any good machinist or mechanic can.

    Locks are a thing of the past, talking safes and buildings, not front doors.

    I ask because I am installing some cameras. It is after the fact type protection and living where I do I can not weld my house up solid

    So besides cameras that are recorded on two DVRs what?

    Fire protection is in place so.. JR

    Fire protection. I have five in my shop. Yes I do.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by JRouche; 11-14-2020, 01:14 AM.
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

  • #2
    What happens when they steal the dvrs?

    Comment


    • #3
      The DVR is just part of it. As you said, it's for prosecuting after the theft.

      Some DVR software has a feature that will send an alert to your phone in real time if motion is detected. That allows you to call 911 while they are still loading things up. You can set up times and day of the week that the alert is active.

      Another interesting setup is to use a home automation setup with some motion detectors to (again) sent and alert to your phone. My "Smart Things" brand hub will connect to a lot of different motion detectors, and will allow me to do some neat automation. For example: I get an alert when the back door is unlocked while the lights are still off. That covers two scenarios: a) if I forget to lock the door it signals me when the lights turn off automatically. b) If a crook wants to break in, the easiest way is to break the window and unlock the door. I can also program it to alert me to any motion in the shop or house when my phone (which I usually carry) is not home.

      All of that with no extra charge beyond the cost of the hardware.

      Dan
      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by danlb View Post
        The DVR is just part of it. As you said, it's for prosecuting after the theft.

        All of that with no extra charge beyond the cost of the hardware.

        Dan
        I dont want some 3rd Party to have my chit? Ill keep it local and go after the fact just as the stupid Security will do..... Ooops.

        Closed loop, 8 cameras, 2 DVRs. One screen. JR

        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by danlb View Post
          ....... b) If a crook wants to break in, the easiest way is to break the window and unlock the door. .........

          Dan
          I'd have to say that is the security hole you have.

          "call...while they are still loading things.....". You won't, they will be long gone.

          These guys are good. They know about you folks and your phones, cameras, etc. They spend a maximum of 3 minutes in your place, finding the stuff they can get away with easily and get money for.

          They are not in there 15 minutes selecting the best tools to take.
          3751 6193 2700 3517

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

          If you look closely at a digital signal, you find out it is really analog......

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

            I'd have to say that is the security hole you have.

            "call...while they are still loading things.....". You won't, they will be long gone.

            These guys are good. They know about you folks and your phones, cameras, etc. They spend a maximum of 3 minutes in your place, finding the stuff they can get away with easily and get money for.

            They are not in there 15 minutes selecting the best tools to take.
            All true BUT one thing you left out.... if they get a decent haul, there is a excellent chance they will come again to get more !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by danlb View Post
              Another interesting setup is to use a home automation setup with some motion detectors to (again) sent and alert to your phone.

              Dan
              Is all of this, including the cameras on a UPS? Does your home have a main disconnect outside as many home do? Thieves could throw your main disconnect or just pull your utility meter from its base. Utility meter base locks are easily opened with a Pentel mechanical pencil.

              You prefer to think technology is always the answer. I'll rely on a barking dog instead. Most thieves don't want to get bitten.
              Last edited by reggie_obe; 11-14-2020, 11:10 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                To be fair there's really no defense against smart crooks. The good news though is that the big majority of break and enter events are looking for easily fenced goodies. And as much as we value our stuff there's two things going for us. First is that much of the stuff we have isn't all that recognizable. Or it's simply too heavy to haul away easily. They'll go for the "low hanging fruit" which is items such as mechanic's tools and common stuff like nice cordless drills and angle grinders.

                We're also looking at time and effort needed to get in. I had my old shop door get jimmied twice. And both times they only succeeded in making it hard for me to get in. But that's OK. Yet in both cases they left the big windows to each side alone. Largely because the windows were Georgian glass. That's the stuff with the wire mesh in it. I suspect that they didn't break the windows for two reasons. One is that it would make a lot of noise. And the second is that there's a very good chance that they saw the wire mesh as "shatter proof" or perhaps that even when broken it would still not let them in. Either way their mistake worked in my favor.

                Bottom line is that most of the smash and grab guys are not that bright and are generally fairly lazy. Make it reasonably tough to get in and they'll give up and go elsewhere. That means breakage resistant glass, A good door correctly installed and something better than the very cheapest dead bolt. And a few motion sensor lights around the area.

                None of this will deter a serious effort. But really, is the market for fenced machine tools in your areas really THAT lucrative? This last bit is sarcasm in case it's not obvious. I can't imagine a market for stolen machine tools at all. Easily grabbed and carried hand tools for sure. But not lathes and mills or the goodies for them in the shelves beside them.

                Now fire, on the other hand, scares the beejeezuz out of me. Fire is the intruder that takes everything because it doesn't care. Risk of fire is the very best reason for having a panel that contacts a monitoring service or that contacts your own cell phone. Or at the VERY least signals from the shop to the house.

                And don't think that a fire won't start when you're not there. Something done near the end of the day that puts a spark down into a pile of something that starts to smolder can burst into active flame some time after the lights are shut off and you're already changed into your jammies and watching the late shows. Or maybe the battery or charger for the cordless tools fails and starts to burn. it could be just about anything. So I do feel that there is highly compelling reasons to have detectors in the shop that signal out to somewhere else.
                Chilliwack BC, Canada

                Comment


                • #9
                  Had a breakin/burglary 20 years ago
                  No security other than a locked door. ( Not my home !)
                  Had a real friendly Cop do the investigating.
                  Burglary is the LEAST crime they look into.. Usually catch the guys by mistake ( traffic stop, raiding a "Fence" ie) or happenstance.
                  They do not respond to alarm calls if they are busy ( Unlike those TV shows)
                  Told me this..
                  1. Make it hard for them to gain entrance-slow them down- they figure on being in and out in 30 seconds , other wise their chance of discovery goes up.
                  2. Using standard alarms systems is not a prevention ! These guys go to college ( called Prison !) and learn all the tricks to disarm anything.
                  3 Have lights at night using sensors that are hidden if possible
                  4. Posting that cameras are being used can both scare them or entice them ?
                  5. Locks can be cut !

                  So I took his suggestions to heart, and 10 years ago had another one, but this was an attempt and not successful.
                  One thing I did was machine (engrave) a plate with a (fabricated ) name of an alarm company and used the term "wireless" in the writing.
                  The plate looked very official , but since the name was unknown to the bad guy, he is not sure how to bypass it --
                  Think of something fierce like "Delta Force Wireless Alarm" and then add a small red flashing led light powered by batteries
                  I won't say all of what I did, but the Perp ripped out the electric meter and severed the phone line after getting through the first door and still seeing the
                  light flashing ....he bailed out....

                  Rich

                  PS:
                  My neighbor had a similar issue and and made a sign that he put outside his door that said
                  "Please do not smile, I need a picture to match a Lineup poster"
                  Green Bay, WI

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Rich is 100% correct. Make it difficult so they go somewhere else. The police in many places are very slow to respond to burglary in progress, and the crooks seem to know this while the homeowners don't.


                    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

                    Is all of this, including the cameras on a UPS? [ snip ]
                    You prefer to think technology is always the answer. I'll rely on a barking dog instead. Most thieves don't want to get bitten.
                    You are assuming that I use it for security. I don't. I use it for home automation (HA) with the side effect being that we get alerts for things like power outages, unexpected motion, unlocked doors, etc. I probably have more UPSes than 99% of the homes in the USA. I have whole house generator backup too. All network and HA devices are either battery powered or on a UPS. The UPS does not help much when power is out for the entire county because the cable company does not provide backup power for the cable modem network. The DSL works for about 8 hours longer than the cable, and the cell phone hotspot can't get a usable data signal on my block.

                    I would not have a dog for security simply because a) they crap all over, b) the false alarm ratio of a barking dog is like 99%, c) you can get sued if they attack someone. **

                    Dan
                    ** I live in California where owners get sued if a burglar gets injured while breaking in.
                    At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                    Location: SF East Bay.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I didn't mention the home break in I had at that same location where the two attempts to get into the garage/shop occurred. It happened while I was away and after a day and a half with all the doors opened one of the neighbours called the police. The officer that attended left his card and I called. Nothing happened from the police other than a case number to submit to my insurance. There's simply too many B&E's and auto thefts for any police force to chase down other than in the most superficial way. But he mentioned pretty well that same list as deterrent options.

                      The fake sticker and battery LED is a great idea too! They don't like anything unknown.

                      Speaking of stickers.... After one of my garage breakin attempts a riding buddy that made his living distributing Harley aftermarket goodies gave me a sticker to put in my window that would have handled the job nicely. He was in pretty tight with one of the shops that sold a lot of bike products to a certain "motorcycle club" that is pretty well known world wide. And when his stock was ripped off via a breakin at his place one of the guys gave him the sticker to put in his window to scare off the low life types. He was of mixed mind to use it and it hung around for a few years until he offered it to me after my breakin. I thought about using it but then how would I explain how I got it in case word got back to the local chapter of The Club?.... so it hung around for a while until I tossed it... That's a lot of years ago now.
                      Chilliwack BC, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Paranoia is healthy (-:

                        The single most effective tool for protecting your worldly possessions is money, cameras, motion sensors, motion sensors and machine vision systems coupled with defensive weapons, human guards, armed human guards to watch the first level of guards, mine fields surrounding the facility, moats filled with hot oil, the options are endless.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For a shed have two doors, the outer one being rather flimsy and boken open with trivial damage. That is the one connected to the loud alarm so intention is indisputable not accidental but they are then put off continuing actual entry. If you must have a window protect it properly on the inside but have a bit of flimsy mesh on the outside again connected to the alarm.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I totally agree with you guys. If a human is intent on doing something, rape, murder, robbery or a good ol fashion burg they will do that thing.

                            I dont have any front facing windows. so at least that wont be the entry point.

                            So, I guess a lil hope and prayer is all I gots. Oh, and the home defense shotgun.. Kidding. I would never shoot anyone for theft. Thats a baseball bat thing

                            Thanks..... JR
                            My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                            https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                              Kidding. I would never shoot anyone for theft. Thats a baseball bat thing
                              Thanks..... JR
                              Does Cali have a retreat law?
                              Ball pein hammer with long handle is a less obvious weapon in a shop or garage. My neighbor favored a keyhole saw when he owned a retail business. Chief of Police addressing the Merchants Association suggested it as more effective than a pistol against an armed thief. Kept in a scabbard under the counter and oriented for quick withdrawal, the idea was to quickly slash the robber's face or neck, not the arm or hand with the weapon. The assailant could then be apprehended by following the copious blood trail he left.
                              Last edited by reggie_obe; 11-14-2020, 07:33 PM.

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