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Not O/T: Security for the Shop. Any ideas?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

    Does Cali have a retreat law?
    Ball pein hammer with long handle is a less obvious weapon in a shop or garage. My neighbor favored a keyhole saw when he owned a retail business. Chief of Police addressing the Merchants suggested it as more effective than a pistol against an armed thief. Kept in a scabbard under the counter and oriented for quick withdrawal, the idea was to quickly slash the robber's face or neck, not the arm or hand with the weapon. The assailant could then be apprehended by following the copious blood trail he left.
    Yikes! I was hoping to not have to get all personal with the crook. I left that dude behind in a former life

    Cant I just speak niceties to them? JR
    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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    • #17
      Yes, California has a retreat clause. It's not self defense if you had an opportunity to safely flee and attack instead. I'd prefer the Stand Your Ground doctrine myself.
      At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

      Location: SF East Bay.

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      • #18
        if you get a DVR, get one with the NTP protocol. this is the protocol that sets the time on your clock. the DVR time must be accurate within seconds or it gets thrown out of court.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AD5MB View Post
          if you get a DVR, get one with the NTP protocol. this is the protocol that sets the time on your clock. the DVR time must be accurate within seconds or it gets thrown out of court.
          Thank you Sir. I will double check the units I have. JR
          My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

          https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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          • #20
            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

            I'd have to say that is the security hole you have.

            "call...while they are still loading things.....". You won't, they will be long gone.

            These guys are good. They know about you folks and your phones, cameras, etc. They spend a maximum of 3 minutes in your place, finding the stuff they can get away with easily and get money for.

            They are not in there 15 minutes selecting the best tools to take.
            Have a friend who watched his shop tools being stolen while he was in Arizona.Once they got inside they backed up a enclosed trailer,3 guys moved a whole bunch of contents in under 5 minutes and were gone.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by danlb View Post
              If a crook wants to break in, the easiest way is to break the window and unlock the door.
              It may be the easiest, but it's not the preferred method of entry. Many would rather kick down the door or force a window open. Going in through a broken window is risky. One drop of blood is all it takes to link them to the crime.

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              • #22
                Why worry about shop security at all. Most big equipment like lathes and mills are too large and heavy for them to take and these under educated thief's (no shop classes) that the schools are turning out today wouldn't know what to do with the smaller items anyway.
                The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                • #23
                  DeSantis in Florida wants to sign legislation in FL that would allow you to shoot and kill rioters and looters damaging your business. The current "stand your ground" laws are probably enough to "light them up" with an AR15. An excavator and a ton of lyme might be handy to have as well for after the fact.

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                  • #24
                    If you harden the target in not so obvious ways, it goes along way to preventing theft. Here's what I did-

                    I added bars to my homeshop, but not bars on the outside where they are visible. To a thief, seeing bars on doors and windows just means something inside is worth the effort. Mine are on the inside, two pieces of 1x2" 16ga tubing with 1-1/16" holes bored through one wall only. The bars are 3/4" sch 40 pipe, cut 1/4" short of the opening size. To install slip the pipe ends into the holes, set the frame in the window sill and screw them into the framing with 3-1/2" security screws. Not burglar proof, but slows down the determined ones and stops the lazy ones.

                    The second one is reinforcing the doors. I made jamb plates for the bolts to latch into and screwed those into the framing with 3" screws. Then I added a piece of 2" channel to the inside of the framing with through bolts to reinforce it enough that's it's kick proof.
                    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 2 photos.
                    I just need one more tool,just one!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                      Why worry about shop security at all. Most big equipment like lathes and mills are too large and heavy for them to take and these under educated thief's (no shop classes) that the schools are turning out today wouldn't know what to do with the smaller items anyway.
                      No worries about your 7x10 lathe being stolen.
                      Your cordless tools in their cases will disappear as well as any other carry toolboxes. Quick and easy sales at the local swap meet or flea market.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by danlb View Post
                        Yes, California has a retreat clause. It's not self defense if you had an opportunity to safely flee and attack instead. I'd prefer the Stand Your Ground doctrine myself.
                        We went Castle doctrine here, which also extends to any vehicle you own. At the same time we added a no fault clause, where the perps or their family have no legal recourse to sue if they are injured or killed in the commission of a crime. We also changed the law so that if the victim of a felony is under 18 or over 65 years old, the sentence is automatically doubled.

                        So far it has worked well, home invasions and armed robberies are nearly non-existent and the property crime rate is reduced to crooks making sure that no one is home before breaking in. That is where better security and bork bork nom noms come into play.

                        Not long after we went castle, three "honor roll" students broke into a home they wrongly assumed was empty. Lady homeowner was in the shower when she heard them breaking in. She retrieved her pistol from her nightstand about the time one of them walked in on her. She told them to leave, but they insisted, she killed two of them outright and wounded the third before he fled the scene. She had just turned 65 the week before, so he got 20 years instead of 10 with no parole. After that hit the papers the crime rate fell precipitously.
                        I just need one more tool,just one!

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                        • #27
                          I love this forum. I'm constantly prompted to look up things that, in turn, broaden my understanding of things. When I posted about a retreat clause earlier I was considering the broader question of defending yourself in a general setting, such as a mugging. California has a very twisted legal system. I found a web link (below) that reminded me that you have the right to shoot to kill someone in or breaking into your HOUSE (Castle doctrine) but that may or may not extend to a detached garage or business.

                          The oddity that is mentioned in that link is that there is sort of a common law right to stand your ground. Based on cases from the 1800s and even though it's not in the law, California Criminal Jury Instructions (CALCRIM) do allow a jury to acquit someone based on a stand-your-ground defense. The judge is supposed to instruct the jury of that fact IF it appears to be germane to the case.

                          So in some cases a Stand Your Ground defense works in California, at least as far as the criminal charges go.

                          Dan

                          https://www.kqed.org/news/104272/5-t...-in-california
                          At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                          Location: SF East Bay.

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                          • #28
                            From the Oregon Revised statutes:

                            Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

                            (1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or

                            (2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or

                            (3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person.

                            Now I'm not a lawyer but I interpret #1 as to mean if some guy says he's "going to kick your ass" (physical force = assault) as he advances on you, that the use of deadly force is allowed. I'm not going to wait to see if it becomes a felony.
                            #2 is self explanatory and elsewhere in the ORS "dwelling" also extends to any campsite you are occupying.
                            #3 is kind of a moot point and I would think it's falls under #1. I mean, do you have to wait until you or someone else is about to die before using deadly force to protect yourself or someone else?
                            I'm too old to fight and too slow to run, I've got a bad heart, so I carry a Glock 24/7. If I have to use it and I'm wrong, well I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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                            • #29
                              It only really becomes a problem if someone finds the body/s. No evidence's no crime.
                              The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                              Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                              Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                              • #30
                                From bitter experience you cannot have too much security, shops are a target full of goodies that fence easily, marking kit is vital, out of sight with a photo of it if poss, **** I got robbed the emptied the place, literally, even 2 lathes, ok small ML10 and a boley, I mean everything, even the bloody extension leads off the wall, it’s a nauseating expirence, 50 years gone in a night, so whatever you can do, do it, steel faced door with a keyhole to open, no padlocks, they are worse than useless, if bars on windows, roller bars, tube with solid square rod free to spin inside, busts disks on angle grinders, good lighting all help too
                                mark

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